New barrel

[skipper]

jsh

Okay gotcha. To me turned brass is another animal. I neck turn my brass to a specific thickness, hence turned. That is the only way it will fit in my custom 204. My mind was envisioning you sitting at a lathe neck turning thousands of pieces of brass.

[Rick in Oregon]

jsh, are you talking about neck turned cases? I just keep about 25 - 30 fully prepped cases on hand. I take care of them and only replace whenever in need. Once fired they are fire formed to my chamber and only get neck sized until the need to bump the shoulders back. I have no need for a thousand cases sitting around. I'm wondering why anyone would need that many turned cases?

Well Skipper, with respect, I'll mention that with that statement, we're in two vastly different "rifle worlds".

When my crew and I do our colony ground squirrel shoots that last ten days at a time, it's not unusual to fire over 100 CF rounds just in the morning. So using that math, not even counting the afternoons where we shoot as much or usually more, shooting 1,000 rounds of 204, 223, 20VT or whatever in that ten day span is not only possible, it's stark reality. I see this myself every season.

Two of my pet rat rifles require cases with turned necks for safe chamber clearance (20VT & 204RM). My protocol for all my rat rigs is to have 1,200 loaded rounds for each rifle for these trips (four 100 rnd plastic boxes to each .50cal metal GI can, three cans per rifle). So having over 1,000 cases neck turned, trimmed, primer pockets uniformed, annealed and prepped is pretty much a standard for subject rifles. The arduous turning task is accomplished during the winter months at the bench while the snow flies. Warm, comfy and with entertainment and a warm beverage at hand, it's no biggie at all to dedicated shooters who take this seriously.....as we all do here.

You, from what I read here only shoot paper and have only 30 or so spare neck turned cases on hand. That amount would not even be enough for an hour in the fields we shoot. So until you experience the joy of multiple days in a loaded rat patch with that custom paper puncher, you will never understand the "need" to have over a thousand fully prepped cases on hand for this rifle pursuit. For this, having OCD turns out to be a big plus.

Forgot my Sako 17 Mach IV which also requires neck turned cases. So you can see what I mean, and now you can quit wondering.

[skipper]

i hear ya' Rick, but my rats have wings. I take three boxes of shotgun shells every hunt. Sometimes we do the Cast & Blast hunts where we duck hunt in the morning, fish when the ducks thin out or we reach a limit, then return for an evening duck hunt. The only problem is cleaning all that meat before we call it a day. AND my rats taste better than yours. Take that!

[jsh]

Oh so we go from a new barrel to duck hunting, lol. I honestly don’t know how I would choose one over the other. I have a passion for both. Never been on a bad prairie dog hunt or a bad duck hunt.
I have had a huge amount of enjoyment from both.

I skim turned a small lot of 17 Remington brass when it first built that rig. Return was not worth the time. Group size was probably enough for hard core accuracy. But a prairie dog is a generous enough target I had little concern. I had thoughts of some 222 mag brass and see if it would be a larger gain. Then I tripped over a goodly supply of brass and ammo while on a deer hunt. Still kick myself for not buying all the ammo the had, HSM ammo 50 round box for $22.50, little shop was out in the boondocks ammo had dust on it. Coyote hunters didn’t like it because it was loaded with 20 grain bullets.

If Shilen had a rachet 20 caliber barrel I would try one.

[Rick in Oregon]

i hear ya' Rick, but my rats have wings.

Well okay, I hunted birds for 40 years, lots of great memories, but I was under the impression we were discussing rifles, barrels, and neck turning.

[skipper]

My bad, you're right. I don't often hunt things that I not gonna eat.

[Rick in Oregon]

My bad, you're right. I don't often hunt things that I not gonna eat.

Same here Skipper, but keep in mind, we hunt for food also (deer, elk, antelope, birds), but when we're out in the rat patch, we're shooting, and not hunting. The 'hunting' part of what we do, is hunting for the next target through the scope.

Seriously though, we're providing a service for the cattle and alfalfa ranchers here to eliminate (without poison) the pesky rock chucks and ground squirrels that decimate their crops. I've heard stories from the landowners of up to $300K of lost crops in one season due to the voracious appetite of the little alfalfa munchers. So, a few dedicated shooters with accurate rifles and handloads tailored to their rifles is the cure, and copious amounts of fun with friends is the cure from the winter doldrums for us. Win-win, right?

This sign leads to the most fun you can have with a rifle:



And this is the place for that fun (each mound has a family of rats....ground squirrels to you):



Much more fun than any match, more casual, no pressure, a target-rich environment, and like-minded friends to share the enjoyment in the field together. This is where you really find out what you and your rifle are capable of where it really counts.....in the field.



You should consider getting away from the big city for a few days or a week, away from that target range, and find out what real fun you can have with that nice rifle Speedy put together for you with some good friends. Once experienced, going back to the range to punch holes in paper will never be the same, I guarantee it.

And keep in mind where the moniker of "varmint rifle" comes from.....

[Bill K]

Speaking along the same lines as Rick mentioned Skipper. A friend and past shooting buddy that moved to a different state, had a situation, which was really nice. The rancher who's land he shot on, even bought some ammo, I believe mostly 17 HMR as a bonus for him to shot the pesky little critters in his pivots. So you see how some if not more of the rancher/farmers feel about those of us that shot the ground squirrels out of the Alfalfa.

[skipper]

I have been reading and enjoying your rat rodeos for years. I think you guys have a lot of fun shooting squirrels on your adventures. I'm not opposed to your hunts. You even invited me one year. Sorry, I couldn't go. Missed an adventure for sure.

I do have a question though. Do you ever take shots at running squirrels? Learning to lead a duck is an art-form in itself. Coyotes and hogs take a lead also when on the move. Texas has plenty of coyotes and hogs. There is no closed season on them.

[Rick in Oregon]

Quick answer, no. It's an extended accuracy game.

I've got plenty of experience on running/moving targets, trust me. As a young kid, and my dad being an outfitter/guide on our ranch in BC, taught me early on about leading moving targets. He'd roll an old tire down a hill with cardboard inside, and I learned to put my shots into that target as the tire bounced down the hill, R to L, and L to R at 50 yds to start, then moving it out further and further each session with a .22LR rifle, then when I did well, moving to one of the family hunting rifles, back then it was usually a sporterized British Enfield .303 caliber. I was not allowed to actually hunt till I could demonstrate my ability doing this on a repeat basis. (When we got our first M70 .270W, it was a huge big deal.)

Yes, I can hit a moving target, on the ground or on the wing. Food for all of us then was either shot with a rifle or a shotgun. No Wally World's or Safeway's around those mountains then or now for groceries.

Too bad you were not able to make that Rat Rodeo some time ago. If you had, you would know how I roll. Maybe we can set something up in the future; it would be a pleasure to have you aboard at the ranch with that sweet Speedy rig and the smile it would put on your face once the rat-o-batics starts.

Speaking of hogs, this old boy got taken with my Smith M29 .44M in the pouring rain one night, with dogs.....he was ripping about, running quartering at me when I nailed the bugger at about 20 yards.

[jsh]

Looks like my ex when I came home with a limit of ducks and geese. Or after a late night of fishing, hard to leave when they were biting.

[Jim White]

Speaking of hogs, this old boy got taken with my Smith M29 .44M in the pouring rain one night, with dogs.....he was ripping about, running quartering at me when I nailed the bugger at about 20 yards.

Speaking of hogs, I'll be in Florida next month at this time for these things. It will be my first outing for them and I hear they can be quite ornery. On a different note, by your earlier post, it seems that PAC-NOR is back in business, I hope they have fully recovered from the disaster they had a few years back...Jim

[Rick in Oregon]

Jim, P/N going strong again. Both Chris and Casey are hard at it, and with the new building, doing well once again. Glad, as they are my go-to outfit for barrels and action work.

For your FL trip and hogs, what weapon will you use for that there? Got a guide, or going with friends? You know we'll need after-action pics here of the adventure......

[Tom Kat]

WE dont have chipmunks in my part of KS. But I have read a ton about people who like the cute little guys...until they live around them. They are very destructive critters. I am not sure what you NW guys are calling rats, etc....are those chipmunks? We have some prairie dogs out west but most have been poisoined out

[Rick in Oregon]

We call them sage rats, or rats for short. They are Belding's Ground Squirrels who have a voracious appetite for alfalfa. A typical field has about 1,000 of them per acre. LOTS of shooting! We use 22LR pistols off the bench for the close ones, CF rifles for anything past 50 yards.



Here's a family of pups just out from their burrow. They get about 10" high when fully grown, about 1/3 the size of an adult prairie dog. Harder to hit, and much more stupid than the PD's, which makes for much better shooting. Pic taken with a Nikon 300mm lens.....they do NOT let you get that close.





Great aerial displays of 'rat-o-batics' when smacked with a CF rifle:



We have chipmunks too, but up in the timber. These rats are pests, and the ranchers ask us to thin them out to prevent further crop loss. Good for us, great shooting, and we can actually USE our varmint rifles for what they're intended for....having mucho fun with varmints!