hard extraction

[Hedge]

Hoping someone has an answer to this.
I have a Savage Mod 12 that is giving me stiff extraction on my reloads and some factory loads.
The Savage factory rep says they dimension their chambers to SAMMI mins. Checking my fired cases
shows the headspace at .002 below min. Allowing for .002 spring back puts the chamber at minimum.

Rounds chamber easily, but after firing, I have to tap the bolt to get them out. I'm not running hot loads (26 gr. H335, Fed 7 1/2 BR primers and 40 gr VMax bullets getting around 3700 fps).

Re-chambering a fired case to test the extraction, I find that the cartridge extracts easily.

Anyone have a reason for the tight extraction?

[Bill K]

I am going to take a stab at this, with saying I would check or have a gunsmith check the throat/lead on your chamber.
It could just be that you have a short or bad chamber/throat on this factory rifle. Mistakes do occur. Most cartridges, especially factory have plenty of lee way, but you just never know. If the bullet is really touching the leads then you will have higher pressure, which could be causing your trouble. That is where I would start. Bill K

[Hedge]

Thanks, Bill.

But I know the bullet isn't even close to the lands. When I worked up my load, I checked to see just how far out I could seat the bullet. Haven't found one yet that will even touch them and still stay in the neck.

I got to thinking more about the problem and decided to test a few rounds again. Stepped out the back door and popped a couple...no extraction problem. Then it dawned on me. It was -5 deg. F out side. The problem occurs when its summer and I've fired a few quick rounds. I'm thinking tight chamber and heat.

When things warm up around here, I'll do some more experimenting.

Thanks, again

[Bill K]

In my mind and knowing that most all the 204's have long throats, I was taking a stab at possible one slipped though. The tight chamber and heat could well be the problem, whereby you checked and nothing with cold. I guess your followup when it gets hot, will show and tell you.. Have fun, but be careful. Bill K

[Hedge]

Thanks, Bill. I will.

Just an aside regarding pressure. 'twas a brand new rifle when I had a bit of a scare. Punched through some primers on factory ammo. The load was 32 gr. VMax at 4200 fps. Sent batch back to Hornady along with the punched through empties. Got a call back that it was the primers. Their supplier had a run that was thinner than spec.
Guess I was lucky as I didn't get any blow back and no cutting of the bolt face.

[Bill K]

Funny, the timeing on your comment re. primers. A friend, just yesterday, told me he had a problem with a couple brands of ammo/primers pierceing. Took the ammo, both unfired and fired, back to the dealer and was told they have had numerous reports and returns on ammo with pierced primers.
Must be a problem with quality control or some issue with the primer makers. I guess we will have to see what comes out of the complaints and returns. Bill K

[eloodo]

Hoping someone has an answer to this.
I have a Savage Mod 12 that is giving me stiff extraction on my reloads and some factory loads.
The Savage factory rep says they dimension their chambers to SAMMI mins. Checking my fired cases
shows the headspace at .002 below min. Allowing for .002 spring back puts the chamber at minimum.

Rounds chamber easily, but after firing, I have to tap the bolt to get them out. I'm not running hot loads (26 gr. H335, Fed 7 1/2 BR primers and 40 gr VMax bullets getting around 3700 fps).

Re-chambering a fired case to test the extraction, I find that the cartridge extracts easily.

Anyone have a reason for the tight extraction?

I may have the answer. I have a savage model 12 lrpv in 22-250 that had the exact same problem. I also have a savage model 12 fcv .204 with the same issue, but I fixed it before it became a problem AFTER I figured it out on my lrpv.
I reload for both rifles and full length size the brass every time. The first 2 uses of the brass on the lrpv I had no issue. It was the 3rd time that I started noticing about every 6th - 10th case would stick and id have to work the bolt closed and open repeatedly to get the case out. I at first thought there was an issue with my bolt hanging up on the rails and even found a rub spot on one of the lugs where it was happening. I also took the gun to a smith and he polished the chamber and that lug and looked over my reloads for signs of pressure . My reloads are not hot, I reload strictly for accuracy (22-250: 34gr win 748, 55 gr varmaggedon, .015" off lands, chrono at 3520, .248" groups). None of these things solved my issue.
My brother in law suggested checking the headspace so I bought the hornady head space guage that lets you measure to the shoulder of the brass. With a bunch of measuring of fired and unfired rounds I discovered that both of my savage rifles had less than the minimum saami specs for head space. So much less in fact that both a hornady and rcbs full length sizer die in my rock chucker press would not bump the shoulder back far enough EVEN with the shell holder touching the die at full stroke or cam over. What I believe was happening is that over two or three firings the brass head space slowly expanded and eventually after firing would expand against the bolt face with enough rub to keep the bolt lugs from clearing the rails. Id have to work the bolt open and closed a number of times to free the stuck case so that the bolt head would twist enough to clear the rails (I think I was sizing the case). To support this theory I found that every piece of brass that exhibited this behaviour was well beyond the Max head space my rifle would tolerate. The brass was springing out but not shrinking back (probably needs annealing).
So long story short...too late right
I took my reloading die shell holder out and sanded the face of it down approximately .006" . For my rifle this gave me the .002" clearance in head space my rifle needed. 300 rounds later and I've never had that problem once again using the same exact brass that's been fired 4 -5 times now. I measured the .204 , found the same issue, and fixed it the same way. I have shell holders for each caliber that have been polished down so that when they contact the base of the die on the cam over stroke I know I'm getting between .002 and .003" of head space clearance.

So don't go off the saami specs when reloading the savages. Get a head space gauge and verify. I had assumed that my full length sizing dies were putting the brass back into a spec that would work on any rifle including my savages, I was wrong.

I only signed up on the forum to share my two cents on this one issue because it pissed me off and I'd like to save someone else the headache

[bazz]

thank you very much eloodo for taking the time and sharing did you contact savage about that cheers bazz

[eloodo]

I did call them but they only wanted me to send the gun in. They were hesitant to try and diagnose over the phone.. Probably should let them know what I found out. Maybe they read these forums though

[eloodo]

Well my extraction problem came back. I really thought I had it diagnosed correctly with the headspace issue. I will say that adjusting the headspace did help but It wasnt the root of the problem. I found a video that someone posted showing my rifle demonstrating the exact problem that I had:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1ddHYW6wA
(You can also do a google search for "primary extraction issue" to find other forum posts regarding this topic. )
I read on another forum that Savage may have had a number of bolt handles go out of the factory that were out of spec and caused this issue. I called Savage and they offered to have my rifle shipped back at their expense to work on the problem. I didnt want to wait the 3 weeks to get it back so I took the video and my rifle to my gunsmith and we decided to shim the rear baffle by using two set screws. This worked. Ive also ordered a new bolt handle and a rear baffle from Savage for $35 in case I ever want to sell the gun or send it in for warranty work in the future. Again I hope this helps another Savage rifle owner.