savage 10/110 problems/guestions

[ddwaite]

Having problems. I know alot of this has been addressed before but I am sure alot of you wouldn't mind helping a fellow out again. Thank you all in advance. You guys are the best.
#1, went to the range couple of days ago and the rifle shot all over the place. Absolutely no pattern to the point of contact at all. I mean some were not even on paper. Had always shot alright before. or as good as I am.
#2 Came home and went thru all the usual, scope alligment seemed ok, all the scope/rings/mounts and related screws seemed to be torgued properly.
Started cleaning barrell. seemed unusally dirty for only 30 or so rounds Took 2 days to get it clean. Cleaning this barrel has always been difficult, but not to this extent. I use the wipe out/patch out and accelorator.
#3 Action screws seemed to be properly torqued (I think) 40 in lbs. This gun has the accu-stock version 2 and only has 2 action screws.
Now for the questions, does anyone have experiece with this particular gun and have you experienced the same eratic behavoir?
Why is the barrel so darn hard to clean?
Now for the hard part, manual does not state the torque value for the action screws or torqueing sequence. It does give value and sequence for the version 1 with 3 screws.
Fellows, I NEED HELP!
Like I said, It is a savage 10/110 predator hunter. And yes, it is 204.

[Bill K]

Has your stock warped or the barrel touching somewhere and therefore making various contact pressure ? This could cause the problem, since you seem to have covered all the other bases. Just a thought. Bill K

[Ol` Joe]

Check the stock inside and out for cracks. I had a rifle develope a small crack behind the tang that went from a .75" shooter to a 3" scattergun in the same range session. The crack was only ~ .5/.75" long and closed up at rest to the point I missed it, but my smith found it when checking the rifle out.
A scope can go bad to even a new one can have problems right from the box. If you have a spare you might put it on to see if the one you are using is still in good shape.

[jo191145]

What exactly are you shooting out of it? Factory Ammo? Reloads? Powder?
It makes a big difference

Your predator should have a plastic/nylon whatever type stock. Never heard of one of them cracking but........
Did you remove the action from the stock or retorque the screws? Theres a specific method for doing an accustock. Never had one myself but it should have come with instructions.
If not try their website.
Doing it incorrectly could mess things up.

IMO Patchout is not good enough for dealing with carbon used per instructions.
I always use a mild solvent and brass brush to break up the carbon and get most of it out.
Then Patchout to attack the copper and any remaining carbon.
If your shooting R-10X for instance, Patchout by itself will never keep up with the carbon deposits.
39gn Sierras are quite susceptable to erratic behavior out of an overly fouled barrel.
They're extra thin jacket can deform to the point of failure in a neglected tube. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

Did your predator come with a cheapo scope?

[RAMOS]

I had a Savage Model 12 that was always accurate. One day it started to shoot a bit "off" and then it became very erratic. All this, without ever changing loads. Ended up that over time, I had developed a "speed bump" or "doughnut" that my usual cleaning routine did not take care of. Get a nice new, tight brush and really concentrate on the effort it takes to push it through the bore. You should be able to feel the bump. For me, it was maybe 2-3 inches forward of the chamber. My understanding is that is where they most usually form, and that they are made up of very hard carbon. This was on a gun that was maybe 2 years old and had been cleaned every 20-30 rounds. Of course, I figured all this out after wasting time w/ the scope and mounts, stock, action screws etcetera! May not be the same problem you are experiencing but, it could be, and I was quite embarrassed to learn my rifle was dirty.

[Darkker]

Jo1911 has you on the correct path.
Sounds exactly like a hard carbon problem.
Sierra was the folks that got me tuned into that issue.
Their recommendation(which worked great for me) was to clean, then scrub the ever-loving crap out of it with JB bore paste. DO NOT be bashful in this step, then standard clean again(to get rid of the paste).

Win 748 got rid of the issues for the most part for me. WD-40(because it is CHEAP, and dissolves carbon ok) and a bore snake every box became the routine.

[ddwaite]

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I had been shooting 32gr Fiocchi's with pretty good luck. When began to shoot eradict I tried some 32gr hornady's with same results. I cleaned the heck out of it. Based on suggestions, after using the wipe out I ran a brush and good ol' reliable Hoppe's #9 thru it several times. This seemed to clean it up. Yes, I did encounter 'speed' bumps! But it seems like I always do. This gun has always been hard to
clean. Pulled barrel and reinstalled. No where can I find torque requirements for a 2 screw accu stock. While removing barrel from stock, thanks to Ol'
Joe, I did discover a small hairline crack in stock. Appox 3/8" long, on bottom behind the magazine to the left of the bolt release. Now that everything has been cleaned, checked out and put back together, I am going to see how it shoots. Crack may be the problem, but I can not see how it can create this situation. 'so much for savage synthetic stocks' and high priced guns. Sorry Joe, I believe you, but just gotta try!

[jo191145]

If that crack you found intersects the rear pillar it will definately cause problems.
That is the weak spot in Savage action/stock design. I've fixed a couple wood stocks that split there.
Never would have thought a plastic stock would split. The only plastic stock I have is a Sav LE-10 cheapo.
It tends to deform under stress but not crack.
Overtightening a non bedded stock is the easiest way to split one.

You may want to continue your cleaning regimine several times. Speed bumps can be a faulty barrel that may still shoot well.
Usually they're carbon and copper deposits built up on rough spots in the barrel. Rough spots can never be worn smooth if they're constantly covered up and fouling deposits just speed up more fouling.
Some can never be fixed at all.
I've spent weeks scrubbing them out of used Savage factory/custom barrels I've bought online.
Sometimes you find a winner underneath that abused bore, sometimes its not worth the effort in the end.
I've resorted to using Midways firelapping grit on a patch. Would'nt recommend putting it on a bullet per instructions but for hardened fouling build up its useful on a patch.

I've always looked at it this way. If a problem barrel can't be fixed then it can't be ruined as its not worth having anyway.

[Wrangler John]

I posted this picture before, so please don't hammer me for repetition. These targets show various torque settings for a Savage Precision Target Action (Right bolt, Right Port) Single shot with three stock screws. The pictures run bottom left to right, then up to the top picture. Screw torque settings are listed left to right, i.e. 30 in/lbs front screw, 30 in/lbs middle screw, 5 in/lbs rear screw. As loads tightened up I fired more rounds to make certain the change was stable. The final target had around 12 shots through it, and looked fairly consistent.



As noted the load was a 26 grain Varmint Grenade, 25.2 grains of RL-10x, Federal 205M Primer, and Winchester case (not noted on target), seating depth 2.260". Velocity runs around 4,110 fps. The barrel is a 24" Pac-Nor Super Match, 1:8.5" twist, 11 degree crown, .204 Ruger.

Stock is a Sharp Shooter Supply Classic Varminter that I skim bedded.

It is really important to experiment with your rifle, and an accurate torque wrench or gauge, to determine where to set the torque.

Also, I don't use Wipeout or Patchout as I found them too slow and inefficient. I'm not knocking the products, I still have two cans left, but have switched to Bore Tech's products for high use varmint rifles. This is completely a personal choice. I Start with Eliminator until patches come clean, then switch to Cu+2 Copper Remover until all traces of copper are gone, and follow up with C4 Carbon Remover. I use only Bore Tech's Proof Positive nylon brushes, jags and rods as any brass cleaning implements will continue to foul patches with blue color. The amount of grey or brown carbon that comes out of "clean" bore on the final stage can be telling. Also I lube the barrel with non-petroleum based lube prior to shooting and after every cleaning. I use Holland's Witch's Brew Break-in Fluid, or Lyman's Moly Bore Paste, but some use Lock-Ease Graphited Lock Fluid. Hope some of this helps.

[Johnnu]

I have the exact same rifle (Savage Predator Max 1) and my (1/2")groups opened up recently. I had been using Sweets exclusively in it. I also have a stripped screw behind the trigger guard, but it doesn't hold anything but the trigger guard (so no use obsessing over it). I decided to scrub the heck out of it with something less abrasive than JB but still having a bit of abrasive in it; I used Remington Bore Cleaner. Went to the range and it was ALL BETTER. John N.

[Johnnu]

Forgot to mention that my 'owners manual' specifically states 40 in/lbs for both screws....Hope this helps.

[ddwaite]

Sorry for the late response guys. Upon suggestions I purchased some Bore Tech products. They performed quit well, barrel was cleaner than it had ever been.
Also what I perceived as a crack in the stock was actually a small slit in the camo covering material. Went back to the range and the first 12 or so shots looked pretty good. After that it went to heck. After cleaning barrel again I broke down and went to a gunsmith. Luckily I found one, hard to come by around here, a very nice guy and willing to help. He looked down the barrel with boroscope and discovered machining grooves running around the inside of barrel, running perpendicular to the riflings and very evenly spaced the length of the barrel. Called Savage and explained situation, they said to send it back and they would make it right. Asked how they intended to correct it and they said new barrel. Gun is now in shipment to Savage.
Once again I want to thank everyone for their input. This has been a learning experience and I have learned a lot from all of you, thank you.

[RAMOS]

Nice to own products that are supported by the manufacturers!

[jo191145]

Well, its always nice to get a new barrel.
Problem is those machining marks have been there from day one and you stated the gun shot fine.
My quarentee is there will be another learning expierience coming in your future
Thats OK. Thats half the fun.

[ddwaite]

jo191145, believe me I do not understand either. You would have thought after shooting it numerous times it might have smoothed itself out a little