Dogtown bullet seating depth

[BitterClinger]

Hello,
I just got a new older Savage M12 LRPV I'm trying to work up a load for. This is my first experience with a 204R so I'm on a learning curve. I currently am using the Midway USA Dogtown 34gn bullets. Using the Hornady modified case with this bullet on the lands only leaves about .050" of the bullet in the case mouth. To me this seems that on a rifle with a slow 1/12 twist barrel being limited to the lighter shorter bullets that the throat is cut pretty long. This gets worse when I use the BT 40 gn Vmax. In order to get enough bullet into the case to get decent neck tension I'm jumping somewhere around .080". So, my question to any shooting the same Savage LRPV, how much jump are you using? Does the .204 like to jump that far? Could someone please give me an idea where I might find the best results? This is a single shot rifle so magazine limitations aren't a factor.
Thanks for your help.

[jpx2rk]

Most 204R's are long throated, just load to recommended OAL, you can adjust a little bit but still need to keep enough bullet in the neck for adequate tension. 204's don't mine jumping at all. Might try the Sierra 39g instead of the 40g vmax, the 12 twist and 40's don't always play well together.

[Rick in Oregon]

An engineering drawing from Hornady clearly shows that ALL 204R's with SAAMI spec chambers will have a throat as long as .100". You will never, ever be able to reach the lands in a factory 204R barrel, so just use factory OAL seating depth until you tweak you own load for maximum accuracy. Most new users of this caliber are amazed at how well they shoot with the very long jump to the rifling.

[BitterClinger]

Thanks for the info. Given the fact that most .204 bullets are so short, any ideas why the throats are cut so long? Is this a safety thing to keep pressures manageable since the main goal in producing this caliber was speed and therefor hot loads to get it?
I too think my 40 vmaxes might be riding the edge of stability in this 12 twist barrel. No keyholes at all, but I noticed that they are grouping tighter as the speed increases.
As for these cheap Dogtown bullets from Midwayusa. Anyone been having good accuracy with them? I've heard a rumor that they are Nosler. Is this correct?

[Rick in Oregon]

Bitter, you're spot-on in regard to the long throat being responsible for the high speed attainable in this caliber, a la Weatherby.

And 'yes', you are correct in regard to where the Dogtown bullets originate....not far from where I sit.

Most long time 204R users have come to realize that it was designed for the 32gr bullets, most shoot the 39gr SBK well though, but the same is not true for the 40's, as it's hit and miss in regard to which 12T barrel will shoot them and which ones won't no matter what. It's a matter of bullet length in the 12T for stability. This is why many (including me) have 204R's set up with 11T barrels.

[truckerwalt]

if you think that you need to get out to the lands with the .204 get a custom barrel--factory barrels are pretty good with the long free bore. i think you could trust what the people who developed the caliber have done and still shoot awesome groups. it just seems a no brainer to me.

[BitterClinger]

Not trying to get to the lands. Just noting that when I have the full caliber of the bullet in the case it is jumping about .080" to get to the lands. I don't have any other rifles that will shoot 'great groups' jumping that far. This is a new rig and caliber for me and I'm in the process of working up a load for it. Was only asking other LRPV owners how long the throats were in their rifles and how much jump they were using hoping to not burn the barrel out looking for a seating depth that worked best. I think IF I do go custom barrel the new one will be in .223 vs 204 anyway. Not because I don't like the 204, but because the .223 has tons more bullets to choose from.

[Rick in Oregon]

Bitter, yep, the 204R is about the longest factory throat I think you'll find. Just knowing that going in can save a lot of grief down the road, as these rifles all seem to shoot quite well with this very long jump to the lands as most users here will attest.

As for the choice between a good rifle in either 223 or 204R, I contend you 'need' both. Every American male with even a casual interest in rifles should have the current military caliber in his safe (we won't get into the 5.56 vs. 223 here), and the 223 as noted has a grand selection of bullets available, and is a great varmint caliber.

That said, once you have spent some time in the field with a good shooting 204R, you'll soon see what all the fuss is about. The flat shooting characteristics alone are usually enough to convince anyone, add in the ability to see all your hits and misses with about zero felt recoil and it's usually an easy choice.

I own multiple rifles in 223 and 204R. None are in danger of going down the road anytime soon.

[BitterClinger]

This rifle is a true beast. 26" barrel measures a full 1" at the crown with a tiny .20 cal hole in the center. That's a lot of steel and way too heavy as a hunting rig. I only shoot it at the bench and a few days ago found a load using 32gn V Max COL 2.245"and H4895 that groups 3 rds in the high teens @ 100yds. And that is with a good long jump. So, indeed somehow those short little bullets stay straight before they get into the bore. As for the .223. I have a M70HV that with Hornady 68gn HPBT and CFE223 will shoot low teens until you get bored with it. Built me a DPMS 5.56 too, but it is just for fun. Not very accurate. I love all my guns and will give this one a true fair shake before it gets turned into a 223. I just ordered 250 32 gn bullets and 50 Hornady cases from Midway last night. So I will at least wear out all those cases before unscrewing this tube if at all.. That is the beauty of the Savage. You can have a 204R that also doubles as a 223Rem. All it takes is 10 minutes to swap back and forth.