220 swift owners

[Jim White]

Oh and savage on your post about owning a few coopers. I have to say I just dont get it. I am very handy though and can build a gun that will out score a cooper any day! They are beutifull guns and I think mostly due to the awsome stocks. The accuracy is better than the bigger factory guns ,OH IM in trouble here, with exception maybe? Savage! But for the price point ,I think you could have a good smith help you build a nice bench gun, that will make a cooper look sick! Sorry Cooper lovers just my opinion! I feel people are paying allot of cash for a nice piece of Walnut with a barrel runnin tru! I think they have cought on as most manufactures sell guns with weather proof stocks now. Weather proof my butt! While they are more stable bottom line is they cost pennies compared to fine walnut stocks! I will stick to wood and laminate stocks all day! I think a blueprinted rem 700 done right will make a cooper look sick at the range for the same cash or less!

Bye Golly...now thats throwing down the gauntlet.

[savageboy23]

Oh and savage on your post about owning a few coopers. I have to say I just dont get it. I am very handy though and can build a gun that will out score a cooper any day! They are beutifull guns and I think mostly due to the awsome stocks. The accuracy is better than the bigger factory guns ,OH IM in trouble here, with exception maybe? Savage! But for the price point ,I think you could have a good smith help you build a nice bench gun, that will make a cooper look sick! Sorry Cooper lovers just my opinion! I feel people are paying allot of cash for a nice piece of Walnut with a barrel runnin tru! I think they have cought on as most manufactures sell guns with weather proof stocks now. Weather proof my butt! While they are more stable bottom line is they cost pennies compared to fine walnut stocks! I will stick to wood and laminate stocks all day! I think a blueprinted rem 700 done right will make a cooper look sick at the range for the same cash or less!

Yes Valar that is your opinion and you are 100% entitled to that. And MY opinion is I'd like a Cooper. You shouldn't really be judging people by what they want to put in "their" safe or cabinet!

[Rick in Oregon]

I think a blueprinted rem 700 done right will make a cooper look sick at the range for the same cash or less!

Well sir, having both, I strongly disagree.

After a recent M700 full custom build, I wondered why I just didn't purchase a Cooper at the onset. I could have saved almost a thousand dollars, but in the end, it's still "just a Remington". "Same cash or less"......don't think so.

As to your other comment, there's much more to owning a rifle than accuracy alone. Appreciation of fine workmanship, excellence in design and execution, not to mention premium materials all add up to much more than just "an accurate rifle".

It's quite obvious that you do not own either a blueprinted M700 OR a Cooper to make such a statement. If you're quite pleased with what you put together in your garage, well, that's just dandy.

[savageboy23]

I think a blueprinted rem 700 done right will make a cooper look sick at the range for the same cash or less!

Well sir, having both, I strongly disagree.

After a recent M700 full custom build, I wondered why I just didn't purchase a Cooper at the onset. I could have saved almost a thousand dollars, but in the end, it's still "just a Remington". "Same cash or less"......don't think so.

As to your other comment, there's much more to owning a rifle than accuracy alone. Appreciation of fine workmanship, excellence in design and execution, not to mention premium materials all add up to much more than just "an accurate rifle".

It's quite obvious that you do not own either a blueprinted M700 OR a Cooper to make such a statement. If you're quite pleased with what you put together in your garage, well, that's just dandy.

Thank you RIO

[RAMOS]

Had a Savage Model 12FLV. Amazing accuracy, straight out of the box! Most others seem to experience the same thing. What else did I like about it? Well, the price was pretty reasonable. What failed to impress me? The machine work was very rough. The balance was absolutely horrid. The stock had more flex than a bull snake. Accu-Trigger would not function reliably on the lighter settings. I did stiffen up the forearm with epoxy but, that made it even more nose heavy.

I have two Coopers right now. One is a Phoenix, the other is a walnut Varminter. Amazing accuracy, straight out of the box! Most others seem to experience the same thing. I know, redundant! What else do I like about them? Fit and finish is awesome. Barrels are MUCH quicker to clean. Balance is outstanding. Very nice triggers, unless you desire BR weight. Can't pick up either one of them without acknowledging their grace and craftsmanship. What failed to impress me? Nothing. Even the price seems reasonable, from a value point of view.

Also have some 700's. Can't really say anything about the new ones. My last purchase was new, in 1983 ish. Fine, functional guns. Decent triggers. Decent stocks. Decent accuracy. No doubt, they reign supreme when it comes to available after-market parts. No doubt, they can be made to shoot at least as well as the Savage or the 700. No doubt, it will cost you more to do it than the base price of a Cooper. MIGHT be close if you are able to do 100% of the work yourself. A lot to be said for that, just don't plan on paying yourself a wage for your' time.

Every single bit of this is opinion. My opinion. I may be right, I may be wrong. The one thing I do know for sure, is that I am happy with what I have. And, I truly hope everyone else here is happy with what they are shooting. If you are, you have done it right!

PS: I am on my fifth Dodge/Cummins. One of my friends has a Chevy/Duracrap and shoots mostly Savage. Another one has a Ford/Powerjoke and likes Winchesters. We always have a great time when we get together, just like here on Saubier!

[Valar]

Savage I am not judging people bye what they have in there cabnet. I love all firarms, period. I do own a bluprinted rem action in 308 and am currentley maching a 243 barrel for this switch barrel action. In all fairness and honesty I have never owned a cooper! I have looked at them and cant deny they are quality. The only evidence I have is peoples grouping pictures. Maybe I missed a few but I am not impressed so far! I have seen a couple that were good, very good. But for the price? I knew I would catch flak for this one, heck Rem isnt my favorite either. But they are readilly available to customise. I do my own machining so that is a deffinate advantage price wise. Maybe it is unfair of me to judge coopers without owning one. I personally would spend money on a pre 64 Win model 70 before a cooper. But Thats me. I simly said I dont get the affliction or cooper desire. I do not have it. No offense guys I wasnt trying to offend you cooper owners. Just stating I dont get it,maybe because I dont have one! Someday maybe, who knows! If we ever meet at the range, hey I think my shilen barreled ar in 204 will shoot with any factory cooper out there! I gaurantee it cost less. It is not as pretty though!!!

[Valar]

Oh forgot, and Jim Loved your post! LOL

[RAMOS]

Valar, you do have an advantage from a cost standpoint being able to do your machining.

I am as common as an old shoe. If anyone out there ever thinks I'm snobbish or arrogant, please, beat me with a big stick. That being said, I would like to see you copy and paste target pictures from Cooper rifles here that are not impressive. Not "I have started working up load pictures" or the ones that end up like "checked ring mount screws and they were loose" posts. I want to see the crummy target pictures that give all the details of load development and end with "I have made a reasonable effort in load development and this turd still won't group".

The darn things are guaranteed for -.5"@100yds. The two I own have no problem cutting that in half, even with me behind the trigger using a crappy home made front rest and pillow rear bag.

Please don't assume that I am offended, mad or, have a bone to pick with you. I just can't understand how you have arrived at your current point of view. I think you are wrong but, their is no animosity attatched to that opinion .

[savageboy23]

Savage I am not judging people by what they have in there cabnet. I love all firearms, period. I do own a bluprinted rem action in 308 and am currentley machining a 243 barrel for this switch barrel action. In all fairness and honesty I have never owned a cooper! I have looked at them and cant deny they are quality. The only evidence I have is peoples grouping pictures. Maybe I missed a few but I am not impressed so far! I have seen a couple that were good, very good. But for the price? I knew I would catch flak for this one, heck Rem isn't my favorite either. But they are readilly available to customise. I do my own machining so that is a deffinate advantage price wise. Maybe it is unfair of me to judge coopers without owning one. I personally would spend money on a pre 64 Witn model 70 before a cooper. But Thats me. I simly said I dont get the affliction or cooper desire. I do not have it. No offense guys I wasnt trying to offend you cooper owners. Just stating I dont get it,maybe because I dont have one! Someday maybe, who knows! If we ever meet at the range, hey I think my shilen barreled ar in 204 will shoot with any factory cooper out there! I gaurantee it cost less. It is not as pretty though!!!

For someone who likes "all firearms" seems like your opinion of Cooper is somewhat harsh being you haven't owned or fired one. As for the pre 64 m70 the ones I have found are just as much as a Cooper. Personally I prefer the look of a Cooper.

[Valar]

Savage I said they are pretty. I love walnut. I just think they are priced like a quality benchrest rifle! Everything is going up. I personally will most likley never own one unless I come across a super deal. I suppose if a person was paying a smith they might be less depending what you bye?
Ramos I will try and find some target pics to post for you if i get time. I would like to see some that are true half moa posted. Maybe some of yours are floating around? I will look tonight. I have a gun to work on today! Heck a new REm 700 Bdl with a decent selectstock is 998.00 sujest list these days. That is a light barrel gun. They dont shoot the best out of the box either I admit that. If they did I wouldnt be working a shilen barrel right now!
I see select blocks of figured walnut going for over 400.00 I guess with all things in perspective maybe coopers are a good bye. One thing I know for sure they will not go down in price! Non of them will!

[RAMOS]

Valar, I am not a "picture poster". Did it once on another site. Found it to be a completely confusing task. I know seeing is believing but, I will tell you that my 204R will put 5 shots, group after group, somewhere between .30 & .45". My 20VT will do the same, with groups between .26 & .40". Any time either rifle prints a group larger than half an inch, I can tell you exactly what I did wrong to produce the offending hole. These are 100 yard groups, shot off the bench, in calm conditions. I often see Cooper targets posted here and elsewhere in the mid .1's and low .2's, so I know my groups are not because I am a world class shooter. I know, beyond a doubt that both of my Coopers could group even better in more capable hands. As to your comments in regards to Remingtons' current pricing, and everyone else's..............I fear that we have just begun to see what will be a period of alarming inflation, my friend. Enjoy working on that rifle. I truly wish I had the ability and equipment to do that myself!

[Jim White]

PS: I am on my fifth Dodge/Cummins. One of my friends has a Chevy/Duracrap and shoots mostly Savage. Another one has a Ford/Powerjoke and likes Winchesters. We always have a great time when we get together, just like here on Saubier!

Baaa-haaa-haaa-haaa. Bet that was an interesting conservation and I hope it wasn't over Thanksgiving dinner. WRT to cars/trucks, interesting conservations come about over what kind of oil is best.

[Jim White]

I know this post is about the 220-Swift, which I don’t have but I thought I would chime in with my experience of a Remington vs. a Cooper. I don’t own a Cooper but I have shot and handled a few. The wood is exquisite. No doubt about it. The fit and finish is top-notch and they are factory tested with the results provided.

Remington’s of late have been sub-par unless you get the higher end models (VSSF II or maybe a Classic). But, I have two-204’s that have been bedded and free floated and they shoot .5” groups at 200 yards AS-LONG AS the 8-ball behind the trigger does his part, and the ammo/reloads are consistent. Put crappy ammo in a Cooper and it won’t shoot worth a hoot either, I’ve seen it.

Whether to but a Cooper or build up another; well it all depends. For my 20VT, which is still ongoing for almost a year now I decided to go the Remington route because I wanted a repeater. At the time, as best I know, Cooper didn’t offer a repeater in that cartridge. For the repeater to function reliably, that left either a CZ-527 or a Remington 17-Fireball as donor actions. Other actions including Savage reported reliably issues with feeding and/or extracting cases with this caliber. I didn’t want any part of that. There is more aftermarket stuff for the Remington and it was more difficult for me to find a gunsmith to work on CZ’s because of metric threading.

The cost to me for building up is going to be in the $1350-1400 range which is probably close to what a Cooper would run and I suspect it will perform just as good, plus it will be a repeater which is a nice asset in my view. This includes the action, stock, barrel, action/bolt truing, barrel fitting, scope rings, scope basses and bedding the action. The reason for the delay was waiting on a barrel from Shilen. While I’m disappointed they couldn’t produce it in a timely manner, I do appreciate their integrity by not stamping a barrel to be something it wasn’t.

As far as 220-Swift’s, I’ve looked at a 22-BR and it sure sounds promising with similar performance with enhanced barrel life and accuracy.

[savageboy23]

Rifle came in on Tuesday . Picked it up Wednesday. Beatiful looking rig. I am very fond of the Synthetic stock and stainless barrel. Now for the hard decision...... which kind of scope to get. I have all Nikon products on my other rifles, Nikko stirlings on my Howa .223 and .243. It's a toss up between a Leupold vx-3 and the new Vortex Viper HS 6x24x50 mm thats coming out this fall(2013).

[Valar]

Savage, you mentioned nikon. I have had excellent results with them. I just picked up a Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40 on midway. Mill dot recticle and side focus. four inch sun shade and target turrets included. 275.00 marked down 120.00 I beleive. I havent had a chance to zero due to crappy weather, but seems nice. Optic is extreamly clear I wish it was 50 mm. The only thing I see that I like about my Leupold vx3 is it is 50 mm and a bit finer of across hair. I like a fine cross hair for punchin paper! Any how, I thought you might want to have a look? Sorry i veared of subject on you all my mind is constantly wandering!