fire forming brass

[smitty55]

I have been reading way to much!! Something I have read quite often is after sizing then loading new or fire formed brass they are saying after shooting they run the now fire formed brass back through a full length sizer die. Why??? After shooting brass is now formed to your chamber, now I am talking about keeping brass for your own chamber not fl sizing so it can be used with other guns. Why wouldnt you just neck size and keep the brass fire formed for your chamber??? Am I missing somthing?? fl sizing will take you back to sami specs wont it. confussed

[Rick in Oregon]

I rarely EVER F/L size my brass. New brass just gets neck sized, loaded and shot, then only neck sized thereafter. Why some folks feel the need to overwork their brass by F/L sizing it when brand new is a mystery to me.

When difficulty is encountered in closing the bolt after many firings, I just use my body die to bump the shoulder for a perfect fit. Most of my F/L dies hardly ever get used, especially in my target/varmint rifles. In my big game rifles, it's an entirely different story however.

Here's something to ponder: If a brand new case out of the bag will fit and chamber in your rifle, why oh why would you want to do anything to it other than size the neck to properly hold a bullet? This method assumes of course that you have properly dedicated cases for each rifle, and don't "share" brass cases between different rifles.....a big 'no-no'.

[smitty55]

That is my feeling exactly, why wreck a good formed piece of brass fl sizing it after you just formed it. like you say a pass with the body die and you are back at it if the bolt gets sticky. Thanks for the answer
Smitty

[Joe O]

I have taken virgin 204 brass,prepped it(flash hole primer pocket etc)and if there is enough tention on the neck,I load and shoot them.Trimming ,neck sizing,and other neck prep gets done for the second loading.Like RIO,I only neck size,and bump the shoulder with a body die.when chambering gets a little sticky.One thing I found,you can run a loaded round into the body die,all day.Makes loading enjoyable.Not that its not.I smile every time I dump powder down one of Brad's CRT funnels.Doesn't take much to keep an old fart happy.

[Jim White]

If all one is doing is fire forming I agree with everybody else; why bother.

But, in the event the virgin cases have excessive run-outs (some do) and you’re doing some load testing & fire forming together a full-length die will straighten the case out as long all the other reloading equipment is up to par i.e. the sizing die and reloading press. A neck die will-not correct run-out issues. I don’t know if a shoulder die will either, my hunch is it won’t.

Gas guns are a different issue and most always need F/L resizing but only just enough for the rifle to function reliably without over working the brass.

[Bodei]

Hey can someone explain what the "body die" does? I have a Redding body die for my 20VT but not for any other calibers. Do others make this die? How does it differ from FL? Do you anneal after using the body die or just after X-number of firings? Thanks.

[smitty55]

for getting dents out and prepping brass yes fl size , i read that after fire forming they fl size seems to me it defeats the purpose. As far as neck dies streightening out run out of the necks, if I m reading your comment right i may disagree. if the brass is not formed to your chamber yet, you really can not check run out of the neck untill after fire forming. I use wilson dies, and i have used alot of other dies and the wilson neck die is by far is giving me the best run out, I average .001 to .003 on the most run out.

[Jim White]

"if the brass is not formed to your chamber yet, you really can not check run out of the neck until after fire forming."

Sure you can but remember I said "virgin" cases. Naturally, one has to inspect the (virgin) cases but more often than not most are acceptable for simultaneous barrel breaking and load testing. Furthermore, I uniform primer pockets, deburr flash holes and chamfer the necks long before I fire them so (the bad ones if you will) this is usually a non-event and by out of round I mean way out 0.007. For cases (that I need) exceeding that threshold I will F//L size and unless a press or the F/L die is bad it has always correct the neck run out to 0.003. If I'm just burning powder then I'll do what others have already mentioned. More often than not, my bolts guns won't see a F/L die until there is a chambering problem or it needs trimming.

For me, trimming can be a "pain". I use the Dillon power trimmer and it F/L sizes and trims at the same time and, it really squeezes the neck tighter than I like. Afterwards I have to run the case thru an expander ball/neck die to reset them. Instead of a shoulder I have F/L neck sizing dies so when that operation is needed; it's done all in one throw of the press handle.

I do simultaneous load & barrel break in for calibers that have reputations of being hard on barrel life. It's worked out well for me and with the price of components on the rise it helps save a couple of bucks too.

HTH

[smitty55]

I agree 100 percent, you have way more knowledge for sure, I do almost the same prep , but no power prep tools for me, still in the manual mode. Thanks for the input!!
Smitty

[Jim White]

The reason for the power trimmer goes back to my competition days with a service rifle. F/L resizing and ultimately trimming was just a fact of life. The ole hand cranks are ok when only doing a few rounds at a time but when doing hundreds of them, I looked it over one day and said; "there is a better way" and for $150 (AIRC) I went for it and haven't ever looked back. If I were to do it again I'd probably eye ball a different trimmer.

[wirelessguy2005]

Bodei,

The body die is used to bump the shoulder back once the brass starts getting hard to chamber. It doesn't touch the neck at all. Annealing is typically done after extensive brass forming procedures or multiple times of firing and resizing the brass.

Hey can someone explain what the "body die" does? I have a Redding body die for my 20VT but not for any other calibers. Do others make this die? How does it differ from FL? Do you anneal after using the body die or just after X-number of firings? Thanks.

[TrapperDan]

according to redding tech support, their body die in all actuality, is a f/l die that bumps the shoulder and re-sizes the full length of the case with the exception of the neck.When I find it necessary, I,like jim, prefer to use a f/l bushing neck sizer die with a .226 bushing.That way I can do it in one step and still not work the neck the brass that much.

[Joe O]

The Redding body dies do not size the case body as much as their FL dies,+ bumps the shoulder.No neck sizing.You can run a loaded round into the die to bump the shoulder,without issues.

[Rick in Oregon]

The Redding body dies do not size the case body as much as their FL dies,+ bumps the shoulder.No neck sizing.You can run a loaded round into the die to bump the shoulder,without issues.

Joe, I believe that's incorrect, in that the Body Die does indeed size the body to the same extent as the F/L sizer, it just does not touch the neck at all, just the body and shoulder. Redding's literature states that exact description that comes with the Body Die.

If a fellow had a Body Die, Neck Die, and Seater of any configuration, he would never even need a F/L die. In fact, I've got a Redding 204R F/L die, new in the box, never used that I'll be selling soon for that exact reason.

[Joe O]

The Redding body dies do not size the case body as much as their FL dies,+ bumps the shoulder.No neck sizing.You can run a loaded round into the die to bump the shoulder,without issues.

Joe, I believe that's incorrect, in that the Body Die does indeed size the body to the same extent as the F/L sizer, it just does not touch the neck at all, just the body and shoulder. Redding's literature states that exact description that comes with the Body Die.

If a fellow had a Body Die, Neck Die, and Seater of any configuration, he would never even need a F/L die. In fact, I've got a Redding 204R F/L die, new in the box, never used that I'll be selling soon for that exact reason.

RIO,I've been wrong before,but seems,when I ordered body dies the reason was not quite as much body sizing.I don't have FL dies for my 204 or 243AI so can't cross check.I will keep it in mind.Will read the instructions tomorrow.Too old to remember if I read them when I first used them.LOL