New toy arrived - 223 Improved PICS added

acloco · Post by **acloco** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:45 pm

Rem 722 action, heavy Pac Nor barrel, & light trigger...what else could you want?

Anybody else reload for the 223 I or AI with a 1:12 twist?

Vartarg · Post by **Vartarg** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:24 pm

Uuhhhhhhh......Photos??

Hawkeye Joe · Post by **Hawkeye Joe** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:36 pm

No pictures

.. I don't load for a AI, But with that 1-12 twist my first choice would be the 55gr Bergers. Go figure

That AI might get them cruzin at about 3600 fps. The 55 Blitz Kings and Vmax's also worked well for me in 223 Rem. Benchmark or Varget might be a good powder to start with. Rick in Oregon has a AI .I'm sure he'll chime in.

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:50 pm

acloco: Why, yes I do, and here she is:

Here's a better one showing "Black Death" havng fun with rock chucks and squirrels on my favorite ranch in Northern Kalifornia:

Custom Holland rifle, blueprinted M700 action, Jewell trigger, Pac-Nor Super Match SS bbl, 12 twist, McMillian Marksman stock, pillar bedded, barrel floated. Lupy 6.5-20X.

Here's a direct comparison between the .223 Ackley and the 204 Ruger....two of my favorites:

Been using this rig on dogs and rats for almost ten years now, and love the caliber. It has accounted for well over 5,000 PD's and ground squirrels. I use 50 and 55gr BT's only, over H335. I don't shoot 40's in it, as I want the speed down to save the barrel. I shoot 40's in my standard .223's. This caliber is very accurate, dependable, deadly. When there is a target rich environment, this is my "go-to" rifle. You're gonna love yours!

Keith in Ga · Post by **Keith in Ga** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:38 pm

Rick, that is one beautiful rifle, can imagine is shoots as good as it looks! I posted a .223AI question on another board which has promoted a "lively" debate. I have been able to learn a lot from all the posts.
What kind of vel. do you get out of your AI with those 50/55 gr bullets?
In a side by side (if you can do so) comparison, how do the AI and .204 line up?
I'm really thinking .223AI or Tac 20 to swap out with my .204 for pd's. Unfortunately, I only get to shoot pd's 5-6 days out of the year. I need to move west!
Aloco, didn't mean to hi-jack your post, just seemed like a good time to learn from Rick. Please give us a report on your gun and how is shoots.

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:25 pm

Keith: I'll share my loads, but please remember that these are safe in my rifle, they may not be in yours. These loads were developed using the ladder method using a chronograph.

Primers: Fed 205M, H335, WW brass, bullets coated with WS2, seated to kiss the lands in neck sized cases.

50gr BT: 28.0grs @ 3610 fps
55gr BT: 27.5grs @ 3525

My best group with the 55gr BT was .116". The 50's usually shoot in the high .2's, low .3's. Pure death on rats out past 500 yards.

My 204 shooting 39gr BK's runs right at 3800 + fps, the 32's, right at 4000 fps.

In the field, the 204 is noticeably flatter shooting, as when I first start out with the 223AI, then after a few hours go to the 204, I'll almost always shoot over a few rats till I start paying attention to my come-up chart, and disipline myself to forget the trajectory of the 223AI. The 204 IS flatter shooting, period.

If I were you, choosing between at Tac 20 or the 223AI to supplant your 204, I think I'd go with the Tac 20, as you've already got 20 cal bullets in stock, and chances are it will run okay on the same powder. The Tac 20 doesn't give up much to the 204, so the trajectories would be very much the same. Just my .02, hope it helps.

P.S. Let us know what you decide.......

acloco · Post by **acloco** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:10 pm

Will get some pics up tomorrow night.

It is a NICE looking rifle.

I would lean towards the 223AI over the Tac20....why? Cheaper bullets, ULTRA cheap brass, and inexpensive dies.

I purchased a set of Lee dies and a Redding should bump die (just in case).

I have 3-400 RUAG stamped brass that I will, hopefully, be using in the AI. Is the ONLY headstamp of this brass that I have - easier to sort.

I do have 800 or so FC...might go that route as well. My Win stamped brass is being used in my Savage 12FV in 223....so don't want to cross up the brass.

Keith - this is why I started the thread...a little discussion sometimes goes a LONG ways...or might start another discussion to boot!

Keith in Ga · Post by **Keith in Ga** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:19 pm

One of the big reasons I was leaning toward the Tac 20 was to be able to use a supply of .223 brass. I have quite a bit of Win and Rem brass, no IMI or good military brass. Then.....I got to thinking about the AI. I was really impressed with my .204 on pd's, and the lure of another .20 compariable to the .204 sounded good too. I've got a decent supply of .224 and .204 bullets, so I have to rely on more experienced shooters to help me make my decision. I'm really leaning toward the Tac 20. It would really be nice to shoot the same powder (Benchmark) and bullets (32 gr Blitzkings) in two different guns. I plan on getting a Cooper Phoenix in one cal or the other.
Thanks for the help.....

acloco · Post by **acloco** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:47 pm

Keith - ah...I was confused on the brass of the 20 Tactical - uses 223 as well.

Have you read this?

http://www.6mmbr.com/20caliber.html

20 Tact is basically a 204 ballistically...but, as you mentioned, with cheap brass (223).

Rick in Oregon · Post by **Rick in Oregon** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:35 pm

acloco: That's why I suggested the Tac 20 over the 223AI (even though I love the 223AI) for your "other" rifle....you cornfused me when you mentioned you'd go for the 223AI over the Tac 20 because of cheap brass......huh?

About the only real advantage the 223AI would have then (at least for you) would be for the cheaper .224" bullets.

As I mentioned above, the trajectory between the 204 and the 223AI is different enough that if you used two rifles in a hot PD or squirrel patch, you'd have a bit of difficulty switching back and forth due to the trajectory difference......the Tac 20 would be so close to the 204, that you'd never even notice.

But as this is AMERICA, you have choices! Ain't life grand?

acloco · Post by **acloco** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:07 pm

Rick - so true.

My "itch" that needed scratched is in the 50/52/53/55 grain projectiles for 223. So, I found a rifle that has the twist rate for them.

I fireformed some brass tonight with 25.5 gr of Benchmark and 52 gr Nosler HPBT's. Under 1/2" at 100 yards for two 5 shot groups. So far, so gooooooood!

The difference between my 204 with 40 gr VMax and 223 with 69 gr HPBT's at 500 yards, is one mil dot in my scope (about 20"!!).

The worst part, the difference in the rifles...is minimal...the 204 has the larger bolt handle. I restocked with Choat's and they wear the same Nikko Stirling 6-24x56 scopes.....ugh!

acloco · Post by **acloco** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:48 pm

Pics as promised.

Morning trip to the range. Mostly fireforming brass. So far, VERY promising in the accuracy department.

5 rounds of Benchmark.

5 rounds of H335.

10 shot group while fireforming some brass.

Remington 722 on the rest. Wearing a Nikko Stirling 6-24x56 30 mm with side parallax. I am buying new rings, I do NOT like the Nikko rings.

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:17 pm

Nice looking rig! And excellent groups for fireforming loads!

.204 Sniper · Post by **.204 Sniper** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:57 am

Good Job!
My .250 AI would group about 1/2" while fire forming (250 Savage brass) - then get to 1/4" or better with my handloads.
I LOVE AI cartridges!

Good looking rig.

Lee C. · Post by **Lee C.** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:58 am

It sure looks like she is going to be a shooter acloco. And that is one very nice looking stock you used for it. Keep us posted on how things Ok?