204Ruger

Currently, I don't have a tumbler or sonic cleaner for cleaning my brass (yes my fingers cramp from shining brass ). I have read some favourable reviews from thoses that use sonic cleaners however, I thought I would get the real goods from the guys here. Given that I don't have a tumbler now should I just go with a sonic cleaner?
Thanks
Griffy

Griffy: Do a search both here and over on saubier.com Both sites have covered this subject in very good detail. My money goes to the vibra-tumbler. Have a rotary for coating bullets, vibratory for cleaning brass. Works great, can't imagine dinking about with liquids to clean brass, but that's just me.

I do not tumble clean my brass. Personaly, I beleive it damages the brass more than anyting. I brush kneck mouth with case braush and wipe as much as possible with a rag and brake clean, Varmit al sys tumbling damages and distorts brass. Makes sense to me. I care not for pretty and shiney, just accurate!
This is just my thought? Feedback?

I agree with Rick. The vibratory tumbler is best for cleaning your brass.

Here are a couple of links for those interested:

http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ess-media/

HTH...JW

I bought a Hornady Sonic Cleaner, it's sitting out side on a shelf in the patio, not likely to be used again. They are slow, messy, and leave you with wet brass that needs to be rinsed and dried. They don't clean the brass any better than a vibratory tumbler. You even gotta mix the cleaning solution with distilled water to avoid spotting.

Old silly me, I just use a cheap Lyman Turbo Twin tumbler, some plain old corncob media with a little brass polish (Lyman's or Dillon's, or any of them). The lubed brass is sized, primer pockets cleaned and then dumped into the tumbler for two hours of so, to remove all the case lube. This also removes any lube from inside of the necks, which may effect bullet pull, or maybe not - who knows? Don't use the red walnut shell stuff, it leaves a coating of rouge on the brass. Keep the brass clean of carbon at the range by wiping the necks with a patch dampened with Slick 2000 Carbon Killer or Bore Tech's C4 Carbon Remover - don't use bore solvent with ammonia. Carbon when it's fresh will come right off.

The idea of a vibratory tumbler distorting brass is a bit mythological, or maybe legendary like King Arthur or the Easter Bunny. All factory brass has been tumbled in giant production machines before packaging, except the European stuff where they forgo the final polish so the annealing color remains as proof it was done. Europeans are funny like that. I measured brass after tumbling and couldn't find any difference - maybe if I had an electron microscope - but not with a vernier caliper or micrometer.

Brass tends to discolor or be blackened in the storage and shooting process. There is nothing that I like better than having brass which has a new bright and shiny appearance so I clean all brass before processing through reloading.

I will add that the big problem with vibratory cleaning is separating the corn cob from the brass. Fortunately, the geniuses at Dillon have come up with two sizes of this, of which I use the smallest. At around $45 it takes the drudgery out of case cleaning. With about three turns on the crank the media is in the bottom and the empty cases remain. The cases after tumbling really do look like those in the picture!

From the pictures I've seen on the web, it appears the rotary tumbler with stainless steel media and lemshine really does the trick, including the primer pockets. The downside, it has to be rinsed throughly and dried prior to use. For me I've always used a vibrator type tumbler with both corn-cob and walnut media. Need to get one of those Dillon media seperators though.

Regarding sonic cleaners, will that have any effect on the brass itself?

Jim White wrote:From the pictures I've seen on the web, it appears the rotary tumbler with stainless steel media and lemshine really does the trick, including the primer pockets. The downside, it has to be rinsed throughly and dried prior to use....

I use a Thumler Model B and SS media. The stuff comes out spectacularly clean and bright, inside and out. There might be a faint ring of carbon left in the corner of the primer pocket but it's otherwise as clean and shiny as the day it was born. I even reused the same liquid once just as an experiment and cleaned two large batches of deliberately abused brass. Here's the "water" after the first batch:



It's as opaque as motor oil. The second batch came out perfectly cleaned but a bit dull:



The biggest PITA is separating the brass from the media. Because the media can get through the neck (yup, cleans inside, too), what works best for me is to pick up each piece of brass while it's still underwater, hold the neck down and shake it. But then I still have to separate the media from the sludge. I can't find a sieve fine enough to catch all the SS so I pour the liquid through the biggest fine-mesh strainer I can find and into a bucket. The strainer gets most of it and I run a magnet around in the bucket to pick up the rest.

Been using the same media more than a year and it's been wet most of that time, yet there's no rust yet. Even if there were, the next use would knock it off.

Valar wrote:I do not tumble clean my brass. Personaly, I beleive it damages the brass more than anyting. I brush kneck mouth with case braush and wipe as much as possible with a rag and brake clean, Varmit al sys tumbling damages and distorts brass. Makes sense to me. I care not for pretty and shiney, just accurate!
This is just my thought? Feedback?

I make my living cutting metal using CNC and manual machines, and then finishing it all the way to packaged product, I have been in the manufacturing business (sporting goods products) for 20 years. Here is my opinion, the brass could be damaged by some type of tumbling operations, but if done properly there is little risk. In fact, I would dare say that I can prep the neck opening with tumbling methods and get significantly superior results than anyone can by using cutting tools.

There are some key factors to consider to avoid damaging the brass, which would come in the form of dents, especially around the neck and mouth. One is to use appropriate media, another is to make sure the tumbler is properly sized and loaded. There are large tumblers which may be too aggressive, especially if they are loaded to lightly. Drum tumblers can do a good job, but larger ones especially are prone to dent parts when not loaded correctly, with the right amount of fluid.

Tumbling can do many type of metal finishing jobs, including heavy cleanup of burrs and smoothing of edges, light cleanup of burrs and smoothing of edges, surface refinement, cleaning, and polishing to a mirror finish. To end up the results you want is a matter of choosing the right tumbler and media. You don't want to load too many parts (brass cases in this instance) at once, this is a common cause of problems. So, I would have to agree brass could be damaged by tumbling it, but also would say when done correctly with care it is no more or even less damaging than someone unskilled using cutting tools (e.g. neck chamfering) on it. It's a matter of skill and experience, and what your criteria is, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

Even though wet tumbling can be a pain in some ways, it has it advantages. For one, it can potentially clean cases faster with less damage. If you have the right setup and experience you can process large batches of brass efficiently using wet processes, and depending on the media used, you may not have to worry about picking dry corn cob or walnut media out of primer flash holes. For really dirt brass, using multiple stages can be effect. For example, use a wet tumbling process with abrasive media to clean the brass to bare metal. Once dried, it will take less time to polish if you wish, and your polishing media will last longer, and total tumbling time is reduced.

Personally, I would worry about working with brake cleaner that can have bad effects on your health. I would avoid getting it on my skin and breathing it.

Fred, How long do you run the cases when you use the steel media, and are you using any additive or detergent? Have you tried it in a vibratory tumbler? I would expect the standard light duty vibratory tumblers sold for polishing cases might not vibrate well enough with the extra weight of the water and steel.

Industrial Vibratory finishing processes using metal or ceramic media with soap or similar compound is far too agressive for brass and is intended for deburring or precoat surface prep of steel, zinc, and non-ferrous metal parts.

For cleaning and polishing of brass, all you need is a minature purpose built vibratory tub. Media is corn cob and Dillon or other compound for bright finish in several hours. Basically you beat the corn cob media into dust. Process does little or no work on the cases except to remove powder contamination from the firing process and oxidation, and leave a bright finish.

M_D wrote:Fred, How long do you run the cases when you use the steel media, and are you using any additive or detergent? Have you tried it in a vibratory tumbler? I would expect the standard light duty vibratory tumblers sold for polishing cases might not vibrate well enough with the extra weight of the water and steel.

Sorry to have overlooked your question so long, M_D.

It's my understanding the SS media only will work in a rotary tumbler. The media weighs less than the water so it's water that makes it really heavy. You run the SS media with a bit of dishwashing detergent and a dish washer additive called "Lemi-Shine." It doesn't sparke so much without the lemi-shine. I've never tried running it shorter than two hours.

I have been using vibratory tumblers since i started reloading. I tumble all of my brass after firing. My belief is that keeping my brass clean, helps to reduce the normal wear on my dies. And I like nice clean and shinny brass. I do add Lyman Turbo Charger to the media once in a while. This stuff really does work with the corn cob media. I have never had to use walnut shell media, mostly because I don't feel a need for it. I use a Cabela's media separator to separate the media from the brass. works just like the dillon mentioned above. I just finished tumbling 100 rounds of 204 brass. I have 6 firings and loading on this brass and it still looks brand new.

Critter wrote:Industrial Vibratory finishing processes using metal or ceramic media with soap or similar compound is far too agressive for brass and is intended for deburring or precoat surface prep of steel, zinc, and non-ferrous metal parts.

For cleaning and polishing of brass, all you need is a minature purpose built vibratory tub. Media is corn cob and Dillon or other compound for bright finish in several hours. Basically you beat the corn cob media into dust. Process does little or no work on the cases except to remove powder contamination from the firing process and oxidation, and leave a bright finish.

To reclaim old tarnished brass and to perfectly smooth (deburr) the case necks without much labor I do occasionally use industrial vibratory tumblers with either light plastic media or small ceramic balls in a wet process and detergent. Using enough water dampens the action, along with using the correct vibrator amplitude and the right tumbler(s). Having said that, all tumblers, media, and processes aren't the same and brass could be damaged in the process. Metal parts that are far more critical and delicate than brass cases are often processed in larger machines. But, I doubt many people happen to have industrial sized tumblers, so it's probably not something worth discussing further.

The plastic media I use also works well in the small bowl tumblers commonly used to tumble brass cases, it cleans in just a few minutes what would take hours using corn cob or walnut shell media, without damaging the brass. It's overkill though unless the brass is very dirty and tarnished or when improving the case neck opening after trimming in large batches.