204Ruger

i keep seeing articles about the .20 vartarg but i don't see any of the information telling what the cartridge's parent case is. is it the .223 rem case? what are the dimensions of the case--length, shoulder angle etc. how is it different from the .20 practical or .20 tactical? just wondering. i shoot a .20 practical out of a t/c venture with a 1 in 10" twist. it does pretty well even with 40 grain bullets.

Parent case is the 221 Fire Ball. You can, of course, form your own with 223 or 222 Rem case's, but much easier to purchase 221FB cases and make one pass into the FL sizing 20 VT die and go from there.
Many of the newer reloading manual/books show dimensions and have loads for the 20 Vt, or you can check out sites or books by Kindler, Custom Reloading Tools and other for information. Bill K

thanks for the quick response. it was just a question i wanted answered. i have a couple .204's. the best shooter is the savage model 12 which shoots better than i can. my best group was 4 shots you could cover with the open mouth of a .30 cal. case. overall outside to outside was .298 when you subtract the .204 cal you end up with .094"! i may never shoot a group that small again but there it is. i have a t/c venture in .20 practical with the best group to date is .169". all my groups are at 100 yards shooting from a lead sled. i need to get to montana and find some prairie dogs and use up some of my loaded ammo. it is a long way from my home in the idaho panhandle.

I'm also interested in the VT but don't know where to go to get started. Are there any books out there that take you through the process? Currently thinking of a 700 Rem action and a Shilen barrel. I don't really want to buy one all set up and ready to go-would rather drive my self crazy and build one. Randy.

Randy, the best book, I know of right now, is The terrific twenties that is sold at the woodchuck den, by Todd Kindler. Brad Schwartz at Custom Reloading Tools also has info on it. Whidden puts out the best dies for the 20VT, but other companies have them also. The process of forming, from 221 FB brass is very simple and easy. Just run a case into the FL size die and you are ready to load a fireform load and then just work up a load, for you rifle and go have fun. Also a few of the members on this site and a couple others sell formed 20 VT brass ( from 223R) and are reasonable in their prices. Hope this can aid you in your venture into a 20VT, you will not be sorry, it is a fine and fun cartridge, especially for our varmints/squeeks/etc. Bill K

I cannot imagine why anyone would go to all that trouble when the 204R shoots the same bullets in a slightly larger case.

If I was going to do a non-204R .204 it would be the 20 Practical. Again, a slightly smaller case than the 204R but at least free or cheap cases would be available everywhere.

All that trouble ? 204Luver, the 20 VT is not any more work that the 20 Practical is to form from 223 brass. It just uses 221FB brass, or yes, you can do a little more work and form it from 223 brass, which is a good project to have during the winter months. The little 20 VT, if you even shot or shoot one in the field for varmints or targets, would surprise you at how close it will shoot, right along side a 204R, but with less powder, recoil and muzzle blast.
I shoot 204R, 20-223ai,20Tac and have shot a 20practical, but find my go too rifle is the 20VT or in my case a 20 SCC, which nothing more than the 20 VT given a improved shoulder. BUT, it is all in what a person wants to shoot, enjoy and have fun with. We each have and take our choice. Bill K

204Luver,
If possible, find a copy of The Varmint Hunter Magazine, Issue No. 90. In it, I penned an article titled "The Paradigm Has Shifted" that pretty much will get you started with the 20VT. If you read it and did not build or purchase one, I'd be surprised.

I've got varmint rifles in most of the varmint calibers from .17 to 6mm, with five stops at .20 caliber. Four of those are 204's, and only one is the 20VT, but the 20VT gets shot the most in the rat patch. Why? Well, how about wicked accuracy, lack of any real recoil, very low muzzle blast, efficiency that will amaze you.....90% of 204R performance with 30% LESS powder, and the ability to see virtually all your hits or misses.

As has been said, unless you've actually spent some time in the field with a 20VT, you really can't know what the fuss is all about, as nothing written here or on paper can quite do it compared to launching a fat prairie dog, ground squirrel, or chuck with one. After exactly 52 years of doing this, the 20VT has become my all-time favorite varmint caliber for what I do, if that tells you anything. It just qualifies as a "fun caliber".

Just for fun, here's a couple of targets shot with my Cooper 20VT with two different bullets, both factory seconds from Nosler during some load workup:



A day in the field with my 20VT is about as much fun as humans are allowed to have with a rifle.



It's no problem to send a 32gr bullet along at 3,800 fps with only 18grs~ of powder either. Cases last about forever, as does a nice spendy custom barrel. As your screen name implies, you like your 204....try those 32 grainers in a 20VT.......you may like it!

204Luver... I have said those very same words... but now I'm understanding the benefit of the VT... and that is why I'm putting one together right now. My 204 and 20-250AI both have their place in the field, but when you can shoot a 221 FB case necked down to a VT as a wildcat, and only have to shoot 18 grs of powder and still produce 3800 ish speeds... with minor recoil so that you can stay down in the scope and watch the impact... and... your barrel stays cool enough to keep her shooting in a PD or Squirrel field, while all other rifles are cooling down... then what is there not to like. It really comes down to one thing... do you want to shoot a lot at one time and keep a barrel from burning up... and be able to stay down in the shot... or do you want to keep swapping out rifles that are shooting hotter loads, which waste more powder... and only give you the benefit of shooting longer shots pass 350 yds on the average.

I say... use all your hotter calibers for only longer shots, while ALWAYS having at least one 20 VT for everything else. A 204 does not really replace a VT... but a VT could edge out the 204 in the long run for consistent shooting.

I believe that most people who own a VT will grab it first before they grab their 204... and I think their VOTE would be proof in the pudding.

It's kind of like trying to explain the taste of water... you just can't understand it until you drink the drink and taste the taste.

Okay, I'm not buying that there is any difference in recoil with 32-gr. bullets leaving at the same m.v. Saving the powder (about 9 gr. per round) would be nice, but that is only $.04. Not sure it warrants buying a barrel, having it chambered and fitted to an action, etc. I buy new Hornady 204 brass for less than $.50 @, and don't have to neck down.

My main poop-rat partner shoots a VT, so I'm very familiar with the caliber. I just think 204R makes more sense. We shoot the exact, same bullet at very close to the same m.v. The downrange ballistics and whomp! factor are identical.

Sure the VT is accurate, but the 204 is no slouch. This was the only group I shot today using my good loads of 32-gr. V-Max. The Shoot-N-C is 1", the distance was 200 yds.



Splitting hairs is fun, though!

If your rifle is heavy enough you really won't see the difference in the recoil to see your shots IMO but if your rifle is lighter then you could loose them momentarily with the 204. I have a CZ527 American and I loose them briefly will with my 700's I don't.

The one thing I really like about the 20 VT [and 221 Fireball's too for that matter] is the fact that the barrels don't heat up like they do on the 204.

HTH,

Can or would someone compare the 20 practical to the 204R in terms of recoil, powder consumption , barrel wear, etc., like you have here. I have a FV12 in 204R and like it, it's accurate and fun to shoot, etc., just thinking of a winter project since the FV12's are inexpensive base to start with. LOL.

No, but given the case similarities of the two (and the obvious advantages of basing off a .223 case) that is the way I would go if I were willing to have a barrel chambered for a wildcat. One neck-down instead of the two-step.

Take a look at the 6mmar.com website. There, they talk about the 20 tactical & practical, both are base on the 223 case.

HTH,

Look at this chart for 20 cal comparisons...

http://www.tripledeuce.net/Cartridge_Co ... s_0SJN.php