204 Ruger, which factory rifle?

[MTPaul]

From having read some of the comments from people seeking to tap into the collective wisdom of those frequenting these pages, let me first set the stage in order to help provide you with some perspective on where I am coming from and why I am asking.

I already own several small caliber rifles (10-22 Ruger/KIDD/Volquartsen, 17 Hornet Savage Model 25 thumbhole and Lilja barrel, 223 Cooper Model 21 MTV, 243 Remington - maybe on the far edge of "small") and all have been modified to some extent, some more than others, to match the primary intended purpose. I also use Thunderbeast suppressors on all my rifles. Now I am considering adding to my already full gun safe inventory by looking to add a 204 Ruger. I do not reload my own ammunition, so I rely on factory loaded ammo with all my firearms to provide me with the type of accuracy and consistency I seek. I already have enough hobbies and while I fully realize the limitations relying on factory loaded ammo entails, I am willing to accept this. I enjoy shooting longer distance (up to 500 yards) with the smaller calibers while watching for the impact on small soft tissued creatures as do many others who also frequent this site. I primarily shoot from a rest (~75%), either a heavy shooting table, a lighter but somewhat easier to move shooting table or a steady tripod like a Death Grip. The rest of the time (~25%) I am using shooting sticks, bipods or off-hand.

I've narrowed down my tentative list to the following rifles; Savage 12 LRPV, Savage Model 12 Varminter Low Profile, Kimber Varmint and lastly the Cooper Montana Varminter. I understand the 1:12 twist on these rifles means I will be using from 24 to 40 grain ammo (and 40 grain may be pushing it for some rifles) but like I said earlier, I do not reload my own. I've looked at other possible manufactures (Sako, Tikka, Remington) and while I am not completely sold on the ones I've listed, they do seem to frequently rise to the top when the subject of a factory rifle is discussed. I have purchased lightly used firearms in the past and this is certainly within the realm of possibilities given the overall condition - emphasis on condition.

With that as a starting point, I look forward to reading the comments and guidance from those with FAR more experience with the 204R than mine, which to this point has been limited to being an interested observer.

[skipper]

It sounds like you're not afraid of using a gunsmith to tweak your rifles in order to get them up to your expectations. Have you considered a build from parts? If not, then the Cooper sounds like a good starting point for a winner. Guaranteed accuracy right out of the gate. I think Rick in Oregon would be our subject matter expert on those rifles. I assume he will chime in at some point.

Twist is the big thing when choosing a 204 Ruger. Many members have had issues with tumbling/key holing whenever we try to shoot the 40 gr. bullets. Finding a rifle that you can pick up with a 1:11 twist will help out a lot in terms of bullet stability. However the real speed happens with the lighter bullets. I have a custom build that launches the 35 Berger FB at 4300 fps. Think red mist! It all depends on what you want in terms of performance.

The other area that you might take into consideration is the overly generous throat on most all factory offerings. The 204 has such a long throat, you'll never be able to reach the lands, if you do start reloading. That is the very reason many of us have built custom rifles where we can specify all the details. In many cases, that leads us to the 20 cal. variants.

[MTPaul]

To help whet the appetites of the assembled crowd, as you ponder the question I posed earlier, I thought I'd share a picture of a target rich environment or is it a picture of gun porn...you decide. Location is somewhere in the great state of WY.

[Tom Kat]

I have owned a lot of Savage rifles, and a few CZ's.

I have been pretty impressed with my Ruger American Predator, it has a good trigger, barrel, and solid action. The stock is crap, but when I got a better one the gun has shot really well...

[Rick in Oregon]

Paul, I've been at this game seriously since I came back to 'The World' in 1968. Prior to that, I was roaming the lush Kalifornia hills with both my 22LR and 22WMR rifles after ground squirrels. Since that time, I've spent more money and time 'perfecting' the chase than most humans would admit. If you search here for some of my older posts, you'll see what I refer to.

But to answer your question as to 'what factory rifle' in 204 for the best bang for the buck, I'll offer one name right off the top: Cooper Firearms of Montana.

Caveat: Cooper for reasons unknown sold the operation to Nighthawk Custom recently. Unfortunately, NH seems bent on not offering the old single shot bolt guns any more, preferring what is now termed "tacticool" stuff. So if you want an 'old' Cooper, they're still out there new in the pipeline, and of course used. Many models were offered in 204R. Mine is a Montana Varminter, and with my handloads is easy a 1/4" rifle, usually better as all of mine are. I see you don't handload, but many here have 1/2" 204's that are not Coopers and are shooting factory ammo.

So to further the cause, here's some pics of mine in the field doing what we all like to do; send small furry varmints into orbit. We refer to it as "Rat-O-Batics". Most of our shooting now is ground squirrels, as they're right here in copious numbers, and we have very friendly ranchers who let us shoot for a week plus with our travel trailers on the ranch property hooked to water and power. About as good as it gets and we don't have to drive to MT or WY to do it.







The one below is one of my builds with a H-S Precision stock, Pac-Nor 11T barrel, Jewell trigger that shoots all the 40 grainers just dandy. I save it for the longer shots when the 32's are getting blown about.







I'll admit I snuck in a couple with my Cooper 20 Vartarg too, as I seem to shoot it more now than my four 204's....3,800 fps with only 18~ grs of powder and groups in the .1's with it's pet load.

So that should illustrate the love, it's our favorite pastime. Of all the factory rifles chambered for 204R, the Cooper is my first choice, next is a custom build. I've got several based on the proven M700 platform, and it's a great choice to keep the build under two grand. One thing for certain....you've got choices, and lots of 'em!

Good to have a like-minded fellow from Montana with us. You'll fit right in here. Feel free to post away, and remember; pics...pics!

[MTPaul]

My sincere thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts, experiences and of course pictures of the various 204R build opportunities that exist. You've given me a lot to think about. While I have yet to assemble a custom-built rifle from scratch it does offer a unique opportunity to get something that would rival the build quality of a high-end factory rifle (like a Cooper) without the inflicting the same pain to the pocketbook - after all I am retired, and I don't have an unlimited amount of funds to devote to this project. Although I'm sure if someone cares to, they can spend an extravagant amount of money on a rifle build and will achieve something worthy of admiration but in reality, the varmints I pursue at ranges under 500 yards probably won't care that the rifle shoots 1/4 MOA versus 1/2 MOA, because they will be just as DRT.

Don't get me wrong, I am pleased as punch with my Cooper model 21 in 223 and it is a real shooter with a dandy walnut stock! I use the Cooper when the wind increasingly begins provides too much for my 17 Hornet to overcome. But if I can fill the gap between these two options with an accurate 204R, there is just another arrow in the quiver to choose from. Win, win, win in my book.

While I mull this over, and never having attempted a rifle build before, where does one start? I have a pretty good handle on the various scope options I prefer (Leupold being my first choice). But; Stocks? Platforms? Barrels? So many to choose from...

[Rick in Oregon]

Paul an easy way to create what you're after would be what many of us have done.....obtain the action of choice (M700?), specify caliber, twist, length, etc, select a stock of your liking (H-S Precision?), trigger, and send it all to Pac-Nor for all the machine work, bedding and final assembly. You get a finished rifle back to you built precisely to your specifications. That is what I did with my bug-hole shooting 204 Ruger Match. I designed my own reamer, had PTG grind it, sent it to P/N for chambering. The result is what works for my 500 yard rat-getter.

I'll add that most here are not satisfied with 1/2" rifles, as a 1/4" rifle is just more fun and offers accuracy you can depend on at extended range. Like a squirrel or prairie dog peeking over its mound with only his head showing at you from 350-400 yards. A half inch rifle may connect, but a quarter incher will lift him out of his hole every time. I'll go for the quarter-incher. Extreme accuracy is just more interesting.

Out of all the 223's I own, my Cooper VR is the most accurate and the first Cooper I owned. Snagged it from the Nosler Pro-Shop years ago for a paltry price on consignment. I'd buy five more at that price if I could find them, but they're getting like unicorns now. I'll also mention that like you, Leupold is my choice in optics. Spotters, bino's and scopes, I've got over 30 of them in the safe. Excellent CS and warranty, plus custom shop options like adding their excellent M1 elevation turret for extreme precision.

Some of my Cooper rat rifles, all Leupold-equipped with the M1 elevation turret:



Lots of good choices and paths here, and we're all willing to help you spend your money. Many here are retired too, a bunch of old guys who love the rifle and what we do with them. You're in good company with like-minded fellows.

[Rick in Oregon]

Paul, I'd be remiss if I didn't list at least one available factory rifle in 204R. My first choice would be the Sako M75V or 85V, it's successor. Mine gives stellar performance, they have a factory set-trigger that's adjustable, as does the CZ Varmint. I have both brands, both are excellent in all regards, but the Sako is a bit of an upgrade in overall quality and design over the CZ (IMO).

My Sako M75 Varmint during load development:



It shoots like this on a regular basis, plenty accurate enough for all the varmints I chase:



And when wanted, it shoots the wind-resistant 39gr SBK well too at decent velocity:



When I want to shoot any of the 40gr bullets, I shift to my M700 with the 11 twist Pac-Nor barrel. The various Remington varmint models can be tweaked to shoot very well too, but most factory rifles have the 12T barrels, so it's an 'iffy' situation in regard to bullet stabilization with the 40 grainers, but they all seem to shoot the 32's very well. The 32's give excellent red-mist qualities too.

[MTPaul]

Hi Rick and thank you for providing yet another factory 204R option to consider. That is a nice-looking rifle and it's hard to argue with the accuracy either. Out of curiosity I did visit both the Sako and Tikka (a close second cousin) websites to do a little window shopping and what I found was interesting. Apparently, there is now a successor to the Sako 85 varmint as a Sako 90 varmint is shown but the only chambering options are; 222, 223, 22-250, 243, 6.5 creed, 7mm-08...nothing in 204R. Similarly, with the Tikka T3x varmint...nothing in 204R was shown. Am I missing something or have both Sako and Tikka dropped the 204R from their latest chambering offerings?

[Rick in Oregon]

Am I missing something or have both Sako and Tikka dropped the 204R from their latest chambering offerings?

Paul, that's news to me also, but I'm guilty of not keeping abreast of such matters, basically having all the rifles I really want and have not been browsing. Usually the only reason a caliber is dropped from production is low sales volume. The 204R is what I'd consider a niche cartridge with a slim following, albeit a faithful one. Most likely the reason it's not listed by either at this time.

I'm sure you're aware of Gun Broker and Guns America. Both are good places to find out of production firearms, as long as you're careful and communicate with any potential seller by phone, current photos of the gun, and check out his online sellers reputation.

The CZ 527 Varmint has a very good reputation, and is available in 204. Savage is another option, but I'll admit I am not a Savage fan, never have been.

[MTPaul]

Rick, struck out again with the CZ 527. The CZ website shows the heavy barrel version of the CZ 527 Varmint as being discontinued in 2021. Apparently all three manufactures have dropped the 204R from their latest offerings. This makes the option of a build your own looking more and more attractive.

Out of curiosity I did reach out to Cooper to see what their current inventory might be in a Model 21 Montana Varminter 204R (I didn't see anything listed as "Ready to ship") and I also asked about their current build time. I'll see what they say...

If I did go down the track of building my own as apparently many have done, what would I be looking at as far as a rough timetable to have something in my hands ready for ammunition evaluation and testing? I understand there are many variables, and I certainly am not planning to hold you accountable, but a rough estimate would give me an idea as to whether I'd have something ready to shoot in 2024 when the varmints begin to emerge in my neck of the woods.

[skipper]

Give these guys a call: Bryant Custom Precision Riflesmithing
https://bryantcustom.com/

[Tom Kat]

This is how the poor white boy in Kansas did it for $1,000.

https://youtube.com/shorts/U1_36YJ4S0E? ... _3CUAZ_NmJ

[Tom Kat]

You wouldnt do this to a cooper- https://youtu.be/H7Ukdl4z9DU?si=1C8524LIUhuiuJLv

[Tom Kat]

.