MY Postal Shoot - in the 3's!

[acloco]

Last target shot previous to the postal shoot. What the rifle is capable of:




During the postal shoot. Conditions were perfect. No wind, 65-70 degrees, and sunlight perfecting bathing the targets on the stand. Sitting at my favorite bench and the bags just seem to fit....know what I mean!!!??

Sighters were shot at various points during my aggravation:


Group 1 - only three shots on the target.


Group 2 - getting better - 4 shots!


Group 3 - TWO holes touching!!

[WrzWaldo]

Did you end up shooting coated bullets? Any ideas what happened?

[acloco]

I don't know yet. I shot ALL bullets....

Shot 5 for barrel warming (standard practice with this barrel after cleaning), shot two sighters on my own paper, made ONE 1/8" right adjustment, shot 3 more on a new bullseye on my target - dead center and could only see two distinct holes....and then went on to the postal target.

It is just the barrel. Every other time I shoot it on paper or on varmints - it is dead on.

I have been cleaning the barrel this week....and will make another trip to the range on Friday/Sat/Sun...and post results.

[rayfromtx]

I would suspect the scope and not the barrel. A change that drastic does not suggest the tune of the rifle to me. Even a damaged crown is not likely to blow up your groups to that extent at 100 yards. Try a different scope quick before the rifle starts to think it's a dud.

Is that a keyhole I see? If not, I would try a new scope first. If it is, then I would chrono the load, borescope the barrel, measure the brass for length, and go back to the basics of measuring the chamber for load setup, in that order. This problem doesn't seem to be a gradual shift. Gotta be the scope or mounts, doesn't it?

[acloco]

ray - thanks for the info. That is TWO keyholes that you see. There are five more off the target that you don't see.

It is the barrel.....or...actually....high speed copper stuck in the barrel.

[Singleshot]

I have had similar problems with my Savage Model 12, 204. One day the gun would shoot like a hot da** and the next it would be shooting somewhere else. I did not have any keyholing but the POI would change and the groups would open up. jo191145 suggested that it might be due to copper fouling. I was cleaning the gun every 30 rounds or so with 8 or 10 patches soaked in Barnes CR10. But apparently that was not enough. I did a thorough cleaning with a succession of patches soaked in Barnes interspersed with a few patches of JB bore cleaner until no green colour was evident on the patches. That seemed to do the trick. My groups shrunk and the POI has remained the same (so far) with the same loads. The 204 seems to be like a real good looking woman. Fun to be with but very high maintenance .

[acloco]

Singleshot - I believe that my barrel is in the same class of copper crustacean.

I have been cleaning the barrel over the last several days.

#1 indication if you got the barrel clean? From the breech end, wet a 1 1/8" patch with your favorite solvent, push to the other end....if you can pull it back, your bore is more than likely clean.

I HAD to use JB's paste on it....I have a line of 40 patches prior to this...all blue or green...Barrel is soaking one more time.

[Hawkeye Joe]

WOW.. It looks like you loaded a shotgun shell full of 32 BK's

[acloco]

I will keep cleaning the barrel and shoot another target...without touching the scope.

The barrel FEELS clean now, but I am still getting a touch of green on the patch.

[rayfromtx]

If you break down and spend the money on a borescope, you will never regret it. Until you use a borescope, you won't know what's going on in that barrel.

[jo191145]

In my opinion acloco has taken the correct step. Order a new tube! There are some factory tubes that just refuse to behave. I have a 12fv tube that acts that way. Not implying FV's are no good just a coincidence I'm sure. I use it for fire forming brass and "strange" experiments.
It also happens to be the barrel that shows the capability of being the most accurate. Beat myself up pretty good trying to figure a way around its rude behavior.
The only thing I can figure about my fv barrel is the rifling just seems too shallow. When brand new I noticed that right off. Seems any fouling just makes it go wild. First five to seven shots are usually BR quality. Then look out!!
Occasionally it will come out of the hole squirrelly and get worse.

acloco, Wipe-out, Wipe-out, Wipe-out.
Not sure if your using it but if not you should be. Any barrel that fouls a lot should get Wiped out. Too much cleaning with ammonia based products can etch a barrel just making things worse.
Question, what were you using for bullets? I just like to keep track of keyholing 204 projectiles. Were you shooting 39's by chance?

Someday I will own a borescope. Not soon I'm sure but someday.

[acloco]

jo191145 - I have tried wipeout, at the range, with the barrel hot, and let it sit until I am home (25 minutes). Takes the top powder layer off and nothing else after that. I have NOT tried the accelerator with it though.

Might be able to sneak out this weekend....I believe the JB's bore paste did the trick.

Of note, I don't think you ever get all of the copper/fouling out - small grooves that are 26" in length!

This barrel is accurate...every other time. The picture in this post proves it can hang some tight groups....I just want it to perform that way every time.

In all fairness, might be asking too much out of ANY factory barrel on a rifle that costs less than $1000.

I have a Pac Nor barrel on a Rem 722 action in 223 Improve (ackley)...it shoots lights out with everything from 50/55 SP (read that 4 cent per bullet - CHEAP), 50/55 VMax, 50/55 Nos BT, and 52 gr anything. Shot two groups tonight that were easily in the 2's (tenths! ).

Also of note, I do believe there is quite a difference between a chrome moly barrel versus a stainless. Stainless tend to be a LOT easier to clean....at least in my experience so far.

I keyholed 40 VMax...which has NEVER happened in this barrel previously.

Time will tell, barrel will be here in a week. Of note, for a stop gap, I latched onto a stainless, fluted, factory Savage barrel. Why? Because I do not own a lathe yet. Soon...but not yet.

[jo191145]

The trick to using Wipe-out is clean the carbon out first. Bronze brush,the works. Clean it as good as you can get it with a light solvent like Hoppes #9.
Then foam it and let it sit overnight. I've noticed on heavy fouling barrels it sometimes will not get all the copper on the first try. Seems to settle slightly leaving slight copper traces on the upper side of the bore. To counter that I lay the gun on the side and foam it twice. It is messy stuff tho.
Used in this fashion it will clean to the bare metal. If there are long term layered deposits a more extensive treatment might be nescessary. JB's is recommended after everything to help smooth the pores.

My newest SS tube cleans right up with Shooters Choice. While using Viht theres zero copper. Switch to Hodgen extremes and theres slight coppering.

I've been chasing the BR quality factory barrel for a long time.