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Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:54 pm
by zx10mike
thanks tom
i am still a learner but standard deviation and spread is i presume difference in fps.got the chrono poised and ready.what would you consider a good spread between rounds.please feel free to educate me if i am missing something.thonks mike.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:52 am
by GaCop
zx10mike wrote:thanks tom
i am still a learner but standard deviation and spread is i presume difference in fps.got the chrono poised and ready.what would you consider a good spread between rounds.please feel free to educate me if i am missing something.thanks mike.
If you can get the SD/ES down in the low teens or better yet, single digit, long range accuracy will be better and vertical dispersion kept to a minimum. Good brass prep will contribute to the low numbers. If your case necks release the bullet the same every time it will show in the extreme spread. You can pretty much feel if a bullet seats easier or harder than a previous round, those will usually increase the ES values therefore affecting the SD. The accuracy results at 100 yards won't show any degredation of accuracy but it will definitely show at 600 yards or so.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:02 pm
by zx10mike
popped out today with the chrono which was being a git and would not register my shots
eventually it got three of them 3496 3529 3431 fps showing a 98 fps spread at 200 yds it grouped 1.4" with five of them in 0.79 which i was chuffed with, but you guys are getting better by far at 300 yds it gave me a 1.8" 5 shot with 4 in 1.2".this is much better and berger bullets have made a real difference . however my spread tells me i have much to do.i have prepped my brass well taking care when chamfering ect i use a comp seater weigh powder carefully.my neck tension is just a normal redding sizeing die would a bushing die help ? how do they work?the other interesting find was that between taking 4" off the barrel 26 to 22 and changing bullets i have lost 100 fps wich i am not bothered about at all i just thought it interesting.i also weight sort my hornady brass and there can be 2 grn difference between them which i thought was a lot. i seperate them into light medium and heavy groups so there is still up to .5 difference but the alternative is to throw them away.thanks for your help again chaps and when i get there i will post pictures before you tell me off.atb mike
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:45 am
by GaCop
Try a Lee collet die. The collet die gives me excellent low neck runout when I use it. I believe your accuracy would also improve if you got away from that gawd awful Hornady brass. I use fully prepped Winchester.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:35 am
by 204foxguy
GaCop wrote:Try a Lee collet die. The collet die gives me excellent low neck runout when I use it. I believe your accuracy would also improve if you got away from that gawd awful Hornady brass. I use fully prepped Winchester.
GaCop,
I have a friend @ the Gun Club that is using the Hornady Brass with good success. I had already purchased the Winchester and was thinking maybe i had made a mistake in getting it. Your confidence in the Winchester is reassuring, I have been using winchester for the 223 and like it.
Would you share with us what you do when you prep your brass. Do you weight sort it into groups and then load the sorted groups of brass. This is new to me and i would like to get started loading the 204 on the right foot. Do you also like the Winchester Priners?
Thanks,
I am looking forward to loading and shoothing 204 Ruger.
FoxGuy
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:14 pm
by zx10mike
is hornady brass still bad if prepped?what are the weight differencies like in winchester?norma brass is exphensive but for the amount i shoot i would pay the price if it gave results.
ps can you stop slaging off hornady brass i might need to sell some
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:42 pm
by ryutzy
LOL well my Hornady brass is in the recycle bin. Norma, Lapua, and Nosler for me. For high volume shooting I will try Winchester, but I dont do a lot of high volume in just one caliber.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:42 pm
by zx10mike
omg looks like the hornady brass might be going in the bin soon.i swear you guys are trying to get me divorced
just about everything i bought when i started loading telling the wife it was a money saver has been up graded once or twice
i will have to tell her i found a thread on here saying honady brass keeps blowing up and killing people that should do it.
thanks for all of your tips guys i'm of to buy a bushing die and some better brass then
atb mike
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:41 pm
by Hedge
Mike -
Don't chuck the Hornady brass. I've got a bunch that I use to experiment with. It's good test brass to practice annealing with, practicing primer pocket reaming, die set ups, etc.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:34 am
by GaCop
204foxguy wrote:GaCop wrote:Try a Lee collet die. The collet die gives me excellent low neck runout when I use it. I believe your accuracy would also improve if you got away from that gawd awful Hornady brass. I use fully prepped Winchester.
GaCop,
I have a friend @ the Gun Club that is using the Hornady Brass with good success. I had already purchased the Winchester and was thinking maybe i had made a mistake in getting it. Your confidence in the Winchester is reassuring, I have been using winchester for the 223 and like it.
Would you share with us what you do when you prep your brass. Do you weight sort it into groups and then load the sorted groups of brass. This is new to me and i would like to get started loading the 204 on the right foot. Do you also like the Winchester Priners?
Thanks,
I am looking forward to loading and shoothing 204 Ruger.
FoxGuy
I routinely prep the primer pockets and deburr the flash hole (unless it's excellent Lapua brass). I first run my cases over the Lee collet die mandrel to round out the necks and then trim to length. I use a VLD deburring tool on the inside case neck and a "Scotch Brite" pad for the exterior. I then weigh my cases separating different weights into piles, marking storage bags with the case weight. I run my brass on a RCBS CaseMaster to check neck runout and reject any brass showing more than .002" runout, using that brass for sighter and plinking loads. I also measure my bullets from base to ogive and separate those into respective lengths. My benchrest rifles all have barrels with no neck turn chambers so that's one step I can eliminate.
For my bench rest loads I use CCI BR2 and BR4 primers in most loadings. I recently tried the CCI 450 in my 223AI and 204 loads with results just as good as the BR4s which are becoming increasingly harder to find in my area. I do use Winchester primers in my AR 223 loads and standard hunting loads.
Tom
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:46 am
by GaCop
Hedge wrote:Mike -
Don't chuck the Hornady brass. I've got a bunch that I use to experiment with. It's good test brass to practice annealing with, practicing primer pocket reaming, die set ups, etc.
+1, good use for it.
Re: holding a group at range
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:51 am
by GaCop
GaCop wrote:204foxguy wrote:GaCop wrote:Try a Lee collet die. The collet die gives me excellent low neck runout when I use it. I believe your accuracy would also improve if you got away from that gawd awful Hornady brass. I use fully prepped Winchester.
GaCop,
I have a friend @ the Gun Club that is using the Hornady Brass with good success. I had already purchased the Winchester and was thinking maybe i had made a mistake in getting it. Your confidence in the Winchester is reassuring, I have been using winchester for the 223 and like it.
Would you share with us what you do when you prep your brass. Do you weight sort it into groups and then load the sorted groups of brass. This is new to me and i would like to get started loading the 204 on the right foot. Do you also like the Winchester Priners?
Thanks,
I am looking forward to loading and shoothing 204 Ruger.
FoxGuy
I routinely prep the primer pockets and deburr the flash hole (unless it's excellent Lapua brass). I first run my cases over the Lee collet die mandrel to round out the necks and then trim to length. I use a VLD deburring tool on the inside case neck and a "Scotch Brite" pad for the exterior. I then weigh my cases separating different weights into piles, marking storage bags with the case weight. I run my brass on a RCBS CaseMaster to check neck runout and reject any brass showing more than .002" runout, using that brass for sighter and plinking loads. I also measure my bullets from base to ogive and separate those into respective lengths. My benchrest rifles all have barrels with no neck turn chambers so that's one step I can eliminate.
For my bench rest loads I use CCI BR2 and BR4 primers in most loadings. I recently tried the CCI 450 in my 223AI and 204 loads with results just as good as the BR4s which are becoming increasingly harder to find in my area. I do use Winchester primers in my AR 223 loads and standard hunting loads.
One thing you may notice is accuracy may not be real great firing the new brass for the first time. Once it's fire formed to your chamber and collet neck sized, groups will normally tighten up. I just recently noticed this working up loads for a sporter weight 308 barrel.
Tom