Powders with low ES and SD

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alltherage
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.204 Ruger Guns: Savage 12 VLP

Powders with low ES and SD

Post by alltherage »

I am getting great close range accuracy with cfe 223 but high extreme spread in velocity. I have read of others seeing the same thing. What powders are working best relative to that? Thanks
alltherage
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.204 Ruger Guns: Savage 12 VLP

Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by alltherage »

I am currently running 32 grain varmageddons
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7mag
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.204 Ruger Guns: Rem 7, Zeiss 4.5-14x44-Rem 700, Zeiss 6.5-20x50-Cooper Pheon
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by 7mag »

I may be wrong but annealing my brass and a very good scientific scale made all the difference for me. Especially the scale. I was amazed how far off my rcbs beam scale and charge master could be in high/low spread when i got a scale that went to .001gn
Leave nothing in the field but your tracks.........(and a few carcasses!)
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Darkker
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.204 Ruger Guns: Ruger Predator
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by Darkker »

My 204 is the only rifle that it has ever worked in. With an ES over 100 there is always a serious ignition issue, except apparently, magically in the 204 physics don't seem to apply.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
HoundofSC
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.204 Ruger Guns: Stevens based custom

Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by HoundofSC »

there is a whole lot more to ES and SD than the kind of powder you use. Most of it is case prep. I use a inside neck reamer on my fired brass, tumble it, then anneal it followed by neck sizing then trim cases chamfer and deburr if needed, check primer pockets, measure the powder to the nearest .1 and seated to the same depth. Neck tension has a great deal to do with the speed that bullet leaves the barrel at.
Last edited by HoundofSC on Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
skipper
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.204 Ruger Guns: Remington XR 100, Custom build Lilja/Panda/Shehane/Jewell
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by skipper »

Benchmark and/or N133 seemed to do the trick for me.
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HoundofSC
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by HoundofSC »

Before getting too hung up on SD's and ES read this

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pe ... f%20SD.pdf

What I do is concentrate on finding a powder, load and a bullet that gives good groups then load it as precisely as I can. I might experiment with action screw torques, bullet seating etc later but the first thing is finding the right powder and load for the bullet and barrel
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Darkker
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by Darkker »

Yes there can be differing factors, but as the host of that article by Denton offers(their system). Use a Pressure Trace system enough, and you'll see that large swings of ES are mostly ignition based issues. Why may be for a few different reasons, but the whole mess begins, or fails, with the reliablility of the ignition.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
HoundofSC
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.204 Ruger Guns: Stevens based custom

Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by HoundofSC »

if ignition were the only issue then we could all just use magnum primers. Are you guys confusing SD with the powders temperature sensitivity ? Those are different issues altogether. Never heard of SD being a powder issue until this thread, can anyone source that ?
HoundofSC
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.204 Ruger Guns: Stevens based custom

Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by HoundofSC »

if ignition were the only issue then we could all just use magnum primers. Are you guys confusing SD with the powders temperature sensitivity ? Those are different issues altogether. Never heard of SD being a powder issue until this thread, can anyone source that ?
Bill K
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.204 Ruger Guns: also now, a Savage switch bull barrel in 204R. 23 inch SS
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by Bill K »

HoundofSC wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:06 am Before getting too hung up on SD's and ES read this

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pe ... f%20SD.pdf

What I do is concentrate on finding a powder, load and a bullet that gives good groups then load it as precisely as I can. I might experiment with action screw torques, bullet seating etc later but the first thing is finding the right powder and load for the bullet and barrel
Basically same here. If I find a load combination that is shooting under or around 1/2 inch and it is safe and sane, they I go with it, it my various rifle calibers. I do not concern or worry myself with what the SD's and Es readings are. And even not too concerned with what the FPS is. Accuracy first and foremost. Most of the critters I go after and shoot and put down, quick and humanly, I do not believe can or could tell me the difference. :D Bill K :)
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Darkker
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.204 Ruger Guns: Ruger Predator
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Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by Darkker »

HoundofSC wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:44 am if ignition were the only issue then we could all just use magnum primers. Are you guys confusing SD with the powders temperature sensitivity ? Those are different issues altogether. Never heard of SD being a powder issue until this thread, can anyone source that ?
Depends upon the case, charge, etc. In the Creedmoor, 243, and 308. Regular charges of my typical powders(748,760,CFE) the difference in output between Win & Wolf Standard and mag primers is so miniscule that you almost can't see it on the PT.

Typically a powder that is "sensitive" in an application has more to do with the primer being effected and causing ignition differences, rather than a powder just taking off. 760/414/2700 in the 243 is a prime example of a powder that can get grouchy when the mercury rises. But that isn't little wiggles, that is a major shift in burning rates and system pressures.

Like Bill said, other than double checking my 204 load in the chrono simply so I could know my drops, The accuracy has always been phenominal, and wasn't something that mattered. Accuracy always wins in my book as well, just wanted to know velocity for drops.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Bill K
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:00 am
.204 Ruger Guns: also now, a Savage switch bull barrel in 204R. 23 inch SS
Location: Lake Forest, Ca.

Re: Powders with low ES and SD

Post by Bill K »

Should add too my comment re: FPS. I am not overly concerned with it, other than to have a average of the accurate load, I will be using, so I can have a cheat sheet made to give me my click adjustment for the range, I range, and am going too shot at, be it target or critter. Bill K
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