Collet dies

[brooksb]

Looking for advice on this subject, I use RP, win, and Hornady brass with the 204 and there is a lot of variation in the resistance I feel when seating bullets especially with the Hornady's. So I am considering a Collet die to get some consistency in neck tension, I've read about neck tension and turning until my eyes water and come away believing there is no consensus on this, so a collet die at this point seems the best solution, what are your opinions and experiences?
Just so you know before I got my 204 I stumbled onto an estate sale and got a killer deal on Case Micrometer and a neck turning tool, plus the workstation with a dial indicator for checking runout, concentricity and other stuff all RCBS, I've experimented some but never really used that's why I've read a lot about the subject.

[Bill K]

Not sure if this will help you or not. I only have one set of collet dies, they are for the 223/5.56 and I use them on reloading for them. Can not really tell if they do any better job overall, as this is all I have used them on so far. I would have to compare using them with other calibers to really tell if they do. However with that said, they do work well with the 223 cartridge. Bill K ( I do note seeing a comment, maybe by Lee or Lyman, that they work very well if you neck size only)

[brooksb]

Thanks Bill, yeah doesn't much, neck only has never worked well for me after several neck sizing i'd still have to FL. I just barely push the shoulder back when I size <.0002"

[varget204]

Lee collet dies,I have a set,necks on win,hornady,norma,nosler usually came out .224=.2245,Rem usually .225-.2255 once in a while .226.Shot good groups w/them. .25-.35; Have always shot better groups out of 4 barrels with Full Length sized cases.I bought extra decap rod polished it to .2005-.201.Seemed to tighten a little.I've got hornady custom,rcbs competition,rcbs gold medal match full length,gold medalmatch neck.lee collet.rcbs standard dies,redding standard,redding competition neck die.I would rate hornady,rcbs competition tops ,followed by gold medal match,lee collet next.I have not used the standard dies for 10 years.very poor opinion of redding standard or competition neck die ;with the redding dies cases were always off.0015 -.003.Sent competition die back to Redding got it back' cases were off -0015=.002.Called redding they said that was within their tolerances.If i get cases over .001 off they go in garbage can.Have always had smallest groups w/.2235-.224 neck diameter, neck ID .202 to .2025;.USE what shoots the BEST out of your rifle. Last week shot best group so far at 1000 yds ,under 1/2 MOA,will post pictures next week.I was happier than the ONLY blowfly in a Slaughter HOUSE. varget204

[brooksb]

Ok great I'll keep this info for sure, the variations in tensions when I seat bullets can't be good.

[Bill K]

Just my thought, but even tho we trim and size our cases and the neck areas as close as possible, with what ever method a person uses, it seems to me that each individual case will still have a different holding/pressure ability, just due to each case being ever so slightly different in it's makeup. If that makes sense. So they each will be it's own creature, of sorts. So can we really get every case to be the exact same in hold and pressure on that bullet ? All we do it do the best we can to make the cases match and shoot the best group each rifle will do. Right ? Bill K

[brooksb]

Yes that's my objective, and I'm using 3 different brands now and I have Noslers that I haven't started using yet. Not sure what what I'm going to do yet, need to remeasure my expander ball first.

[jsh]

One can drive oneself crazy with case work.
Unless you have a very, very good idea of ALL you chamber dimensions, all your work can be for nothing. And, actually make things worse.
Buddy got bored one winter and neck turned all his 6mm Remington brass. Groups opened up and were not terrible but sure not what they had been. He figured it was just time for a barrel. He turned the necks just enough to clean them up, some virgin brass put groups back to where they were.

Dragging expander balls back through necks can and will cause run out.

[Rick in Oregon]

Dragging expander balls back through necks can and will cause run out.

Very true. The exact reason the folks at Sinclair recommend if you use the expander, to ALWAYS leave it loose so it can self-center in the cartridge neck upon being withdrawn from the case. When I checked TIR on cases done both ways, it was obvious this tactic works, and works well.

[brooksb]

To all of the above; yeah I don't want to mess up a good shooting rifle, it's certainly shoots well within a MOR (minute of rat)and I'd never heard anything about the loose expander, but will implement that trick.

[Rick in Oregon]

brooksb: Once you start shooting your loads done with the loose expander trick, you'll then be shooting "MORH".....Minute of Rat Head!

Seriously, you'll see the difference once those case necks are all aligned with the axis of the case and not pulled off-center by a too tight and never axially aligned expander ball.

(I tried a test years ago by tightening an expander in the die, then spinning the die slowly in my lathe. The expander 'wobbled' all over, probably with over .050" of TIR. That was enough for me, and I've never tightened one down since.)

[brooksb]

That would be good, those body shots are pretty messy. FYI: I recently read for better alligment to replace the spring clip that secures the shell holder with an O-ring, haven't implemented that one yet either, but I'll do both, pretty easy mods.