I have a new pacnor barrel in 204ruger. I seated vmax bullets out long and let the lands seat them. They came out at 1.920" with my stoneypoint comparator. They looked short. The rifling marks on the bullets were very distinct. I used my borescope to check the chamber and found that there is zero freebore.
With the 32 grain vmax this puts the base of the bullet at the neck/shoulder junction. With the 40 grain vmax the bullet extends into the case to a depth equal to the body/shoulder junction. This chamber seems to deep. I also hear that this caliber like to have some jump. Hornady calls for .113" of jump!
What have y'all experienced. Should I send it back to have the chamber reamed to give me about .12 of freebore?
oal with stonypoint comparator (v-max bullets)
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skipper
- Moderator
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- .204 Ruger Guns: Remington XR 100, Custom build Lilja/Panda/Shehane/Jewell
- Location: Cypress, TX
My factory XR-100 likes a lot of jump. I load to an OAL (base to tip) of 2.255". I have tried every seating depth with that rifle from SAAMI spec to touching the lands. On the other hand, my custom Panda action with Lilja barrel likes them hard into the lands. I am currently loading that rifle with the bullets seated .015" into the lands.
Let the rifle tell you what it prefers. If you are getting satisfactory groups with the bullets seated into the lands then you should go with that depth. My Panda also has zero freebore and I should be able to reach the lands long after throat erosion sets in. With a fine barrel like your Pacnor, you might have a rifle that likes to be seated with the bullets jammed into the lands. I wouldn't send it back if it grouped well. However I would try varying the seating depth with your favorite load to see what happens.
Let the rifle tell you what it prefers. If you are getting satisfactory groups with the bullets seated into the lands then you should go with that depth. My Panda also has zero freebore and I should be able to reach the lands long after throat erosion sets in. With a fine barrel like your Pacnor, you might have a rifle that likes to be seated with the bullets jammed into the lands. I wouldn't send it back if it grouped well. However I would try varying the seating depth with your favorite load to see what happens.
Hold 'em & Squeeze 'em
Cant argue with Skipper on this. He's the man in the know. Personally I'd like one just like it to try myself but my game calls for factory barrels.
I would call Pac-Nor and see what they say. Right after that call I'd start loading the lightweights (32's,34's,35's) and have some fun. I'll bet it'll hum with those choices. After 3-4000 rds you should have room for the 39's,40's. Actually the 40 Berg might work as is now also. If you can't get it to work (doubtful) you can send it back.
If your heart is set on using the longer pills you may want to send it back now or at least give them a try.
I'm not sure the 204 likes to jump. More like it has to jump. Factory tubes are cut with to much freebore which makes jumping almost essential. And Yes the 204 does it admirably. Seating bullets with only a few thousandths in the case in order to reach the lands is usually never good in any cartridge. I'm sure there are exceptions and some awesome groups but consistency usually suffers. JMO
Skippers Panda shoots 0's and thats as good as it gets
Either way I'd call Pac-Nor. Let them know now and they should fix it for free even if you decide to put a couple thousand down her first.
With a refreshened set of lands that tube could last a long time.
I would call Pac-Nor and see what they say. Right after that call I'd start loading the lightweights (32's,34's,35's) and have some fun. I'll bet it'll hum with those choices. After 3-4000 rds you should have room for the 39's,40's. Actually the 40 Berg might work as is now also. If you can't get it to work (doubtful) you can send it back.
If your heart is set on using the longer pills you may want to send it back now or at least give them a try.
I'm not sure the 204 likes to jump. More like it has to jump. Factory tubes are cut with to much freebore which makes jumping almost essential. And Yes the 204 does it admirably. Seating bullets with only a few thousandths in the case in order to reach the lands is usually never good in any cartridge. I'm sure there are exceptions and some awesome groups but consistency usually suffers. JMO
Skippers Panda shoots 0's and thats as good as it gets
Either way I'd call Pac-Nor. Let them know now and they should fix it for free even if you decide to put a couple thousand down her first.
With a refreshened set of lands that tube could last a long time.
Savage VLP + NF 12x42 + 35 Bergers = .
Thanks for the replies. I'm going to call Pac-nor this morning but I've heard some complaints about them not making good on this type of problem. We shall see. I won't shoot it until they say it's ok to do so and they will still take care of it if it proves to be a problem. I wish I had my own reamer and a good local gunsmith now.
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Rick in Oregon
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- .204 Ruger Guns: Sako 75V, Cooper MTV, Kimber 84M, Cust M700 11 Twist
- Location: High Desert of Central Oregon
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Ray: Skipper is right, shoot it and see what it likes. Pac-Nor set up your barrel properly, as I would have had them do for me with a 204 barrel.
Remember, the reason the factory barrels are set up with the silly freebore, is that the factories wanted to keep the FACTORY ammo for the 204 the same OAL as the 223, SO IT WOULD WORK ON THE AR PLATFORM. No other reason, period.
All knowledgable handloaders want to be at or near the lands for best accuracy. Read Kindler's report on his match 204 reamer, the same basis that Skipper used for his Panda that shoots in the .0's.....as good as it gets.
The fact that so many factory rifles shoot well with all this jump is a testament to the sound design of the 204 cartridge. My Sako has a full 120" of jump with it's factory barrel, and shoots in the .2's and .3's with BK's. The only factory barrel I own that will do this.
Remember, the reason the factory barrels are set up with the silly freebore, is that the factories wanted to keep the FACTORY ammo for the 204 the same OAL as the 223, SO IT WOULD WORK ON THE AR PLATFORM. No other reason, period.
All knowledgable handloaders want to be at or near the lands for best accuracy. Read Kindler's report on his match 204 reamer, the same basis that Skipper used for his Panda that shoots in the .0's.....as good as it gets.
The fact that so many factory rifles shoot well with all this jump is a testament to the sound design of the 204 cartridge. My Sako has a full 120" of jump with it's factory barrel, and shoots in the .2's and .3's with BK's. The only factory barrel I own that will do this.
Semper Fortis
Rick in Oregon
NRA Life/OHA/VHA/VVA
Oregon, East of the Cascades - Where Common Sense Still Prevails
Rick in Oregon
NRA Life/OHA/VHA/VVA
Oregon, East of the Cascades - Where Common Sense Still Prevails
I spoke with Rich and Penny at Pacnor and he said he didn't know he had a reamer that would cut it that way. He has two reamers and he is going to check them out. He said he would recut it if I want or I can try it and see if it shoots well and if it doesn't I can still send it back. The problem I see is not being able to shoot the 40s without having the base of the bullet down inside the case. I don't think that is a wise move. I'll try the 32s as soon as I get the stock finished and get it bedded.
Interesting tidbit about keeping the OAL the same as the .223 for the AR. I didn't get that bit of info from the tech guy at Hornady when I called and asked about the freebore and bullet jump that they designed into the 204R.
Interesting tidbit about keeping the OAL the same as the .223 for the AR. I didn't get that bit of info from the tech guy at Hornady when I called and asked about the freebore and bullet jump that they designed into the 204R.
I'm glad to hear Pac-Nor will correct it if need be. If they find this mysterious reamer tell em to hang on to it. We might all be ordering tubes cut with it if yours shoots good
I just tried for the first time the 208gn A-Max in a factory Savage 308 Win barrel. The base was WELL below the shoulder junction at .020 off the lands. I only loaded up four half expecting them to keyhole.
I used a medium/high load of Viht 150 (40gns). The first/fouler shot opened up the 100yd group to .738. The last three grouped .260
Obviously four shots does not tell much and it could be a fluke but I will not worry about seating the base deep in the future as far as accuracy is concerned.
Now dangerous pressure curves from fast burning powders might be a concern in that scenario but that stuffs beyond me.
Its been to hot to even reload and retry them. After eight hours in this heat with a hard hat on my brain is to fried to trust it at the bench.
Good Luck
I just tried for the first time the 208gn A-Max in a factory Savage 308 Win barrel. The base was WELL below the shoulder junction at .020 off the lands. I only loaded up four half expecting them to keyhole.
I used a medium/high load of Viht 150 (40gns). The first/fouler shot opened up the 100yd group to .738. The last three grouped .260
Obviously four shots does not tell much and it could be a fluke but I will not worry about seating the base deep in the future as far as accuracy is concerned.
Now dangerous pressure curves from fast burning powders might be a concern in that scenario but that stuffs beyond me.
Its been to hot to even reload and retry them. After eight hours in this heat with a hard hat on my brain is to fried to trust it at the bench.
Good Luck
Savage VLP + NF 12x42 + 35 Bergers = .