once fired brass wont chamber????????????

craigyboy · Post by **craigyboy** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:53 pm

Having a wee problem with once fired brass, I loaded up 25 tonite and went to try them out I noticed the bolt was tight to close down on some of them and on 2 I couldnt get it too even close. This is only once fired brass that I have only started using recently as my other batch was done. I checked all dimensions between new brass, the brass that chambered and the two rounds that didnt chamber and compared

headspce was consistent to within .001

case head was spot on everytime .372

widest part of the body was spot on everytime at .379 (not on new brass though as my chamber is quite losse so once fired brass fills it out but it was the same between the brass that chambered and the brass that wouldnt chamber)

case neck .226-.227 (spot on)

the brass definately doesnt need trimmed as at its longest it 0.030 off the full length of the chamber.

the only thing I can visually see is at the base of the case neck on the one of the rounds that wouldnt chamber is it flows out toward the shoulder instead of straight down. I have only neck sized 1/2 the neck on the first loading of the brass and the second loading, I dont lube as my previous brass never needed it, could the new brass need lubed and therefore when I neck size its sligthly catching pushing the case neck downwards on the up stroke due into the neck sizer die to too much friction catching the brass instead of pushing over it, and making thee brass bulge out therefore not allow the case neck too enter the chamber? Though surely this would happen on my first loading as well as I neck size in the same way or maybe each time I size it gets a bit bigger? They definatley couldnt need full length sized as headspace is consistent with brand new brass as in once fired brass. I am open too all ideas and opinions as I am still quite new to this relaoding game and am a bit stuck on this one.

Its not all bad though I have hit a nice laod, after I had this problem tonite I just blasted off my last few rounds and shot a nice 5 shot .350 group without trying much

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:31 pm

First off take one of the rounds that is the tightest. Color the whole brass with magic marker. Then try to close the bolt on it. You should be able to easily see where its contacting the chamber.
If you have an unloaded piece of brass thats always the safest way to go.
Otherwise you'd be well advised to do it at the range.

A friend of mine was checking loaded rounds for proper fit in his basement. One went boom. He says a 308 can blow a pretty big chunk of concrete out of the wall. Lucky he's alive. I would have thought he knew better. I watch him closer at the range now

skipper · Post by **skipper** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:33 pm

Take one case and FL size it. Try to chamber the sized case. If it fits, it's probably time to FL size all of them.

craigyboy · Post by **craigyboy** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:10 am

just been doing some more checking today at this, coloured the offending round's in with black marker and tried to chamber, it seems to be on one side just before the shoulder, I checked where it was and it lined up with the E in winchester at the case head so I rotated the round and it chambered with the E facing left or right but not up or down????????? The size just before the shoulder is coming up at .360-361 on most of my once fired brass, whereas brand new brass comes in at .354-.357 but due to my loose chamber I think this is why it grows, I cant find the case to be much out of round though I dont have the right tool and am just spinning the round around in the calipers while keeping the pressure on them and its not revealing anything (obvisouly not a great technique). I would really appreciate any help as I am stumped!

skb2706 · Post by **skb2706** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:49 am

It would seem that your die may not be able to size the fired case down enough to chamber in your rifle. If that is the case and you want to fix this condition there is a simple way to do that. You can turn .010" of the bottom of the die.

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:32 pm

Sounds like your chamber is a touch out of round near the shoulder. What type of 204 are we talking about? Rem,Sav etc.

Theres more at fault here than your die. If your necksizing the die will not size the body anyway. What I find odd is the fact you cannot noticably measure any difference in the case even with a caliper.
Do you have any spent factory ammo brass you could check. Not sure why but it might rule out some sort of defect/weakspot in the brass.

No lube used??? Its quite possible this is causing you trouble. It doesnt take to much energy to deform a small case.
Fl sizing (with lube) will make your problem go away. The question is will it return when neck sizing. Keep Looking.

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:59 pm

[quote="craigyboy"]
I have only neck sized 1/2 the neck on the first loading of the brass and the second loading, I dont lube as my previous brass never needed it, could the new brass need lubed and therefore when I neck size its sligthly catching pushing the case neck downwards on the up stroke due into the neck sizer die to too much friction catching the brass instead of pushing over it, and making thee brass bulge out therefore not allow the case neck too enter the chamber?

[/quote

I think you are close to uncovering your own problem. Instead of pushing your neck down during resizing with no lube being the likely problem, the better chance is that you are stretching the case/neck UP when the unlubed expander drags up the neck and the press pulls the case out and into a slight "banana". After resizing on the downstroke, the upstroke should not take much pressure or make any dragging noise as the expander comes up through the neck. This is almost always an issue with no inside the neck case lube on entry level or standard dies which are notorious for working the brass more then needed. If you are using "S" bushing type neck sizing die without an expander, then no inside lube is needed but you should still lube the outside for consistency/neck tension .

craigyboy · Post by **craigyboy** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:50 am

its a cooper model 21 I am using and I am using sort of standard redding deluexe dies, so like you said rodbolt this could definatley be my problem, ill have to try some other once fired brass with lube and see how it goes with it. I think I have some factory federal somewhere.

Keith in Ga · Post by **Keith in Ga** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:00 am

I ran into the same problem with my Cooper .204 with Hornady brass. Hornady tech told me the same thing, about using lube (I wasn't using any either). He said the expander ball was probably pulling the shoulder out on the down stroke. I polished the expander ball real good, brushed the inside neck, and applied lube, then full length sized. My problem seems to have disappeared. I think you probably already figured all that out. The small things can really cause big problems....at least for me!

HogPopper · Post by **HogPopper** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:02 pm

For what it's worth, I like the Imperial dry neck sizeing powder. Graphite I suspect. No messy clean up, and no pulled shoulders. Been using it for years with no problems.

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:16 pm

I use a dry powder as well. I had some left over from another project.

West System 423

.204 Sniper · Post by **.204 Sniper** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:53 pm

I'm going with Rodbolt on this one. I lube every case - including the inside of the neck for the expander ball. I use Royal Bees wax as lube. I use Lee Collet Dies and I size down to the shoulder. I run them 1 stroke then I turn the case 1/2 turn and do 1 more stroke - each piece gets neck sized twice.

When using a Wilson Neck sizer with sized inserts on neck turned brass I DO NOT lube my brass. (That was for my Tight Necked .250 Ackley).

Just make sure you either tumble them again before reloading or wipe them down good. You don't want 'slippery' neck tension on the bullet or not have the outside of the case 'grab' the chamber when it's fired.

Did I mention I am a HUGE fan of the Lee factory Crimp Die???

skipper · Post by **skipper** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:58 am

I don't use the expander ball. I take it out and just use the interchangeable bushings. The expander ball will defeat the bushings and has been known to induce run out between the case and neck. What is the point of using a bushing to compress the neck to a certain diameter and then have the expander ball open it back up again on exit?

Mr. Jacobs gave us all some good advice about increasing neck tension. I tried it and found that my ES dropped dramatically. Just make sure you do a decent job of chamfering so the bullet jacket doesn't get stripped off while seating.

If you feel you must use an expander ball, I would suggest that you polish it with some Flitz or Mothers. That will help keep it from sticking in the case neck.

Vartarg · Post by **Vartarg** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:26 am

Skipper: what about FL sizing without the decapper/expander assembly, and then opening up the neck with a mandrel in a body die??

WrzWaldo · Post by **WrzWaldo** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:59 am

skipper wrote: If you feel you must use an expander ball, I would suggest that you polish it with some Flitz or Mothers. That will help keep it from sticking in the case neck.

Good advice!

I have a standard redding neck die. What I do is back the expander all the way out of the die and let it free-float on the top of the die. That way when I retract the case out of the die the expander can self center in the neck. So far this is producing very good results

once fired brass wont chamber????????????

once fired brass wont chamber????????????

Re: once fired brass wont chamber????????????

Mandrel?