Low Recoil & Big Distance...?

[Jim White]

I guess i finally have to admit it, im a tad recoil sensitive. And the 204 was a perfect caliber for me to begin my adventure into long range shooting. Now that I've about maxed out my distance limitations with this incredible little peanut shooter, I'm ready to step up a bit to break over the 1K barrier. Obviously I'd like to keep recoil down as much as possible. I just can't seem to shoot with precision when im waiting for a brick to the shoulder, aka flinch. So I've been considering some calibers that Id like to have in a Remington 700, and they are the 243 Win, 7MM Rem Mag, and the 308 Win. I would really like the 7mm Rem Mag, but im not sure how the recoil is on the magnum cartridge. The 243 would be nice to deal with, but i feel like it would just run out of steam past 1000yds and the wind would really bother it. Then theres the ever popular 308 which i hear doesnt kick bad . While its a nice cartridge, it drops...a lot. So lets see what you've guys have for suggestions! Open to other calibers too (but available in R700 pleaseee), but it must be something i can readily get ammo for. Dont have time to reload.
Thanks Guys!

What exactly do you intend to shoot @ 1000 yards, wildlife (varmints, mid or large size game) paper targets, dirt clods...?

[Racr350]

Just targets at that range. Whether it be rock, paper, or steel. Have a variety of places to shoot that distance.

[Rick in Oregon]

Racr350: One thing you have not mentioned, and is a full half of the 1,000 yard equation, is the scope for such a rifle. Looking at your existing scopes in your signature, do know that you will have to pony up at or in excess of $1,000 for a suitable scope to shoot successfully at a thousand yards. You will be in the Nightforce, Leupold LR, Schmidt & Bender or Swaro catagory for such glass, so consider this also while focusing on a suitable caliber for such work. Shooting at 1K can get quite expensive......are you really serious?

No sense having a thousand yard rifle without a scope, or a 'Wally-World Special' aboard that's useless. Just something to consider.

[Trent]

Rick, while I respect your wealth of knowledge I have to disagree with you to some degree on this one. Lots and lots of people shoot out to 1,000 yards with scopes that are not in the NF, S&B and USO category. Heck, black powder guys still do it with peeps. While I do agree that BSA and Barska may not be up to the task, there are plenty of scopes in the sub $1,000.00 category that are more than capable. A favorite of yours and mine (Leupold) is one of those.

Now, if some one wants to move up the ranks of 1,000 yard or Tactical competition then maybe they might need to upgrade. It sound like the OP is more looking for something to shoot casually. I could be wrong on that though.

Again, this is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth. That and a $1 might get you a cup of coffee.

[Rick in Oregon]

Trent: Yeah, I'll have to bite it on this one and agree with you, but I just like doing things right with the best hardware possible. Like you said, I've used irons on an M14 to get past 800, and have looked through some of the Chicom Wally-World scopes too. That's what I base my biased opinion on, not actually trying to squint through one of them to shoot at a thousand.

There's no doubt cheapie scopes out there that could let you do it, I'd just rather use something more up to the task and avoid the overall frustration, probable lack of elevation, and eye-strain. JMO

(I'll add that my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it..... )

[Jim White]

Just targets at that range. Whether it be rock, paper, or steel. Have a variety of places to shoot that distance.

To shoot successfully at that distance you need a minimum of four things;

-An accurate and consistent firearm. Very few out of the box rifles will do this w/o any tweaking at all.
-An accurate and consistent load. It’s extremely rare for mass produced ammunition to do this consistently over a box, never mind over several LOT’s.
-An accurate and consistent rifle scope that has been “properly” mounted.
-An accurate and consistent marksman/rifleman. Anyone can get there (heck, I did…) but it can get frustrating along the way. Nonetheless, it sure beats yard work in the spring.

As far as calibers, I see in your profile you have a .243. That cartridge has more than enough power to reach 1000yds accurately so why not use it? You may have to get a barrel with a minimum of an 8-twist and if you can get a 107 SMK to around 3100 fps which is pretty easy, ballistically, it will equal a 142 SMK .264 (6.5mm) caliber bullet. Recoil will be mild although more so than a 222 Remington Mag. It will also have more authority/horsepower and buck the wind better.

For your .243, you may-not even have to change barrels but if you do, buy a good reputable barrel, send it to Russ Haydon and have him set it up for you as a switch barrel rig and save the $$$. It works just great. On the other hand if you’re really wanting a new rifle anyway, I’d look at the 6.5 calibers, mainly the 260 (6.5-08) Remington, 6.5x55 or the 6.5x284 Norma. Velocity wise I’m guessing the 260 Remington is the slowest of the bunch, the 6.5x55 is a tad faster. The 6.5x284 Norma has a terrible reputation of burning barrels very soon beyond “Match-grade” acceptance. Your accuracy requirements may not be as stringent.

As far as ammunition, you would “far” better off to reload. I’m kinda’ liken’ the shooting targets @ 1000 yards with factory ammo is a lot like “shootin’ chit and not getting a whiff”. It will be frustrating, but…

HTH,

[Jim White]

That and a $1 might get you a cup of coffee.

Ha...as long as its a "hot" cup of coffee.

If you're thinking along the lines of Bushnell, Nikon, Burris (just to mention a few, of course, there are others) I would agree depending on the OP's intentions. I would opt for a 30mm tube because of the increase in internal adjustments. Whether it is a 40mm abjective or higher would depend on the intentions of the OP.

[Racr350]

As far as optics go, I was really looking at nikon monarchs. But the guys over at LRH have been pointing me towards millet. Their scopes have 56mm objectives with 35mm tubes and 1/10 MOA adjustments. They say they're the best bang for the buck but idk as I've never seen one in person. I'm pretty sold on the 260 in a savage 12 LRP. And I'm sorry if I come across as not being too knowledgeable but that's why I'm here asking questions. As far as money goes, I cant afford the best stuff out there. I have a lot of other hobbies other than shooting. I just do it for fun as both me and my father can do it together. And we seem to get by with our budget setups just fine. So again I'm sorry if I'm not as dedicated as most on here. but that's why I come to the experts here with questions. Thanks for all the responses guys.

[Trent]

You've got nothing to be sorry about man! Run whatcha brung man! We all have our price points and priorities. You've got yours right on point. I wish I lived back in Oregon so that I could shoot with my dad. Although it's tough to get him to shoot anything other than a thirty-thirty.

I've also never looked through a Millet. You could take a look over on snipershide.com to see about budget optics, but one thing is for sure over there... those guys know how to spend money on scopes. It's not uncommon for guys to buy $2,000 scopes over there like i buy bags of pretzels.

[Racr350]

Thanks Trent! And Ive seen some of the guys setups over there. Either they make some serious money during the day or their rifles price tag requires them to take out a second mortgage. Now maybe I am being a little hopeful getting out to 1K under a budget. But we've gotten our totally factory rifles (my 204 and my fathers 223) to ring steel at just over 720 yds, shooting factory loaded Federal Premium ammo. So I see it as possible. But maybe it's not. But it'll be fun to try.

[Jim White]

No need to apologize or feel bad about. Hopefully, nothing I wrote makes you feel that way. I was just trying point out that 1000 yds shooting is fun but a challenge. It's like horsepower/speed with cars; "speed cost money...how fast do you want to go"?

Regarding the glass, nothing wrong with Nikon Monarch's, I and a few others here have them. Other's here swear by the Bushnell Elite 4200. The caviet is, with optics, you get what you pay for. For me, I'd probably go with a Leupold, 30mm tube as a minimum. It cost a little more than the Nikon, but the upside is the scope adjustments have always been accurate thru the travel range with very pronounced clicks. Another plus with a Leupold, is; regardless of what you read they hold their value quite well. They also have the best customer service regarding reconfiguring the scope down the line (reticles, knobs and such) better than the others should your needs change w/o having to repurchase a new scope. The reason for the 30mm tube is because they have the internal adjustments. Sure, a 1" scope will work but w/o the internal adjustments you may have to "tweak" the scope by using shims or offsets, which opens up another potential set of issues. You'll just have to research the particular scope that catches your eye to find out.

If needed; hold off and buy the best scope you can afford because if you have to trade up later on the odds of spending more than if you would have waited are pretty good. With optics there is an old saying; "buy once...cry once" and it has really worked well for me. Look around for sales, ebay, gun-broker, craigs list, newspapers other web sites because they're out there. I have two Swarovski scopes but I got them on sale with a heavy discount. ne thing regarding Nikon scopes though, if you get one and it is a factory refurbed unit (usually in a plain light gray box vice the burgundy/brown/black with the Nikon logo) they only carry a 90-day warranty versus life-time for a non-refurbed unit.

HTH,

[Racr350]

Which model leupold would you recommend? Is the VX3 a decent scope? I don't think I could penny up for a Mark 4

[Rick in Oregon]

All the things Jim said. You will never regret buying a Leupold. Here's the VX3 6.5-20X Long Range, with M1 elevation, 2.5" sunshade and Leupold flip covers, Varmint Hunter Reticle, 40mm objective, 30mm main tube. It's all the scope I've ever needed on all my rat rifles, and the Lifetime Warranty is icing on the cake. The clarity at all magnification ranges is about as good as it gets, and the 40mm objective offers all the light I've ever needed.



The M1 elevation adjustment allows me to "dial-a-rat" with come-up charts for first shot hits at long range using a LRF, or just use the VHR with a preset zero for very fast target engagement.



You can spend more, you can spend less, but this is what has worked very well for me over the years. Check out their website and Custom Shop for all the options available, it's amazing what you can cook up now; a scope suited to just about any need. The resale value, in the unlikely event you want to sell it later, is usually much better than some other brands also; just one more thing to consider. Like Jim said, 'buy once, cry once'. Good advice.

http://leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting ... m-adj-obj/

[ryutzy]

+1 what Rick said. I use the 50mm objective for low light/night hunting. Great light gathering ability. The variX3 offers a variety of reticles as well.

[Racr350]

The VX3L has caught my interest. The biggest thing (other than price) is adjustment travel. Being that this scope is a dedicated long range scope. It should have enough travel right? I figure I could buy some 20 MOA bases if not.